专访2014普利兹克建筑奖获奖人坂茂：建筑师应该看到处在困难中的人群

都文娟/DU Wenjuan，英文校对 和马町/English Proofread by Martijn de Geus

本期作者

专访2014普利兹克建筑奖获奖人坂茂：建筑师应该看到处在困难中的人群

Exclusive Interview with 2014 Pritzker Prize Laureate Shigeru Ban: Architects Have to Meet People Who Have Problems

都文娟/DU Wenjuan，英文校对 和马町/English Proofread by Martijn de Geus

日本建筑师坂茂荣获2014年普利兹克建筑奖

3月24日，普利兹克建筑奖评委会宣布，日本建筑师坂茂荣获2014年普利兹克建筑奖。他成为第7位荣获普利兹克建筑奖的日本建筑师，前6位分别是丹下健三（1987年）、槙文彦（1993年）、安藤忠雄（1995年）、妹岛和世与西泽立卫团队（2010年）以及伊东丰雄（2013年）。

坂茂出生于东京，现年56岁，最初在南加州建筑学院（当时的总部设在加州圣莫妮卡）接受建筑学教育，并于1984年获得了纽约库珀联盟的建筑学学士学位，2006-2009年，坂茂曾担任普利兹克建筑奖的评委会成员。他在世界各地的建筑院校讲学和任教，目前是京都艺术与设计大学的教授。同时，他在东京、巴黎和纽约设有工作室。他不仅为私人客户设计优雅且富于新意的作品，而且将同样具有创造性和丰富的设计方法，广泛运用于人道主义事业。20年来，坂茂奔波于世界各地的自然和人为灾害现场，同当地民众、志愿者及学生合作，为灾民设计和构建简单、得体、低成本且可循环利用的避难场所和社区设施。

坂茂在他从事的所有领域总是能够发现多种多样的设计方案，他通常会根据结构、材料、景观、自然通风和光照条件，致力为建筑物的使用者们营造舒适环境。从私人住宅、企业总部、博物馆、音乐厅到其他民用建筑，坂茂的作品总是以其原创性、经济性和精巧性著称，并且不依赖于今天常见的高科技技术解决方案。

坂茂的人道主义工作开始于对1994年卢旺达大屠杀的救助，有数百万人因此而流离失所。坂茂向联合国难民事务高级专员提出了用硬纸管建造收容所的想法，并受聘成为顾问。1995年日本神户大地震后，他再次贡献出自己的时间和才华。在那里，坂茂开发出了“纸木宅”，将人们捐赠的啤酒箱内填满沙袋作为地基，再将硬纸管垂直排列形成房屋的墙壁。坂茂还为神户灾民设计了一个用硬纸管搭建的社区中心。它后来被拆散，并于2008年运往台湾重建。

坂茂经常与当地灾民、学生和其他志愿者合作建造这些救灾项目。1995年，他创立了一个名为vAN的非政府组织（NGO）——建筑师志愿者网络。每次发生地震、海啸、飓风或战争，他都会领导vAN的志愿者前往当地，其中包括日本、土耳其、印度、斯里兰卡、中国、海地、意大利、新西兰和菲律宾等国家和地区。

普利兹克建筑奖在评语中写道：“坂茂的全部作品不仅仅呈现了他善良的初衷，也体现了创造性的思维模式及革新的设计理念，特别是在建筑材料和结构方面。通过杰出设计，来应对高难挑战，坂茂扩展了建筑师这一职业；他使建筑师能够参与政府、公共机构、慈善家及受灾群体之间的对话。他强烈的社会责任感和用高质量设计满足社会需求的积极行动，以及他应对人道主义挑战的独有方式，使得本届普利兹克奖得主成为一名模范建筑大师。”

颁奖仪式将于2014年6月13日在荷兰阿姆斯特丹国家博物馆举行。

普利兹克建筑奖于1979年由已故的杰伊·普利兹克和他的妻子辛迪创立，每年授予一名在世的建筑师，以表彰其在建筑设计中所反映出的天赋、远见和责任感，及其通过建筑艺术对人类社会和人居环境所做出的恒久和卓著的贡献。获奖者将得到10万美元奖金以及一枚铜质奖章。

Shigeru Ban Named Pritzker Laureate 2014

The Pritzker Jury has selected Japanese architect Shigeru Ban as the 2014 winner of the Pritzker Prize in the evening of 24thMarch. Shigeru Ban will be the seventh Japanese architect to become a Pritzker Laureate — the frst six being the late Kenzo Tange in 1987, Fumihiko Maki in 1993, Tadao Ando in 1995, the team of Kazuyo Sejima and Ryue Nishizawa in 2010, and Toyo Ito in 2013.

Shigeru Ban, a Tokyo-born, 56-year-old architect with offices in Tokyo, Paris and New York, is rare in the feld of architecture. He attended architecture school frst at the Southern California Institute of Architecture (then based in Santa Monica, California), and earned his bachelor's degree in architecture from Cooper Union in New York City in 1984. Shigeru Ban served as a member of the Pritzker Architecture Prize jury from 2006 to 2009. He lectures and teaches at architecture schools around the world and is currently a professor at Kyoto University of Art and Design. He designs elegant, innovative work for private clients, and uses the same inventive and resourceful design approach for his extensive humanitarian eforts. For 20 years Ban has traveled to sites of natural and man-made disasters around the world, to work with local citizens, volunteers and students, to design and construct simple, dignifed, low-cost, recyclable shelters and community buildings for the disaster victims.

In all parts of his practice, Ban finds a wide variety of design solutions, often based around structure, materials, view, natural ventilation and light, and a drive to make comfortable places for the people who use them. From private residences and corporate headquarters, to museums, concert halls and other civic buildings, Ban is known for the originality, economy, and ingeniousness of his works, which do not rely on today's common high-tech solutions.

Ban's humanitarian work began in response to the 1994 confict in Rwanda, which threw millions of people into tragic living conditions. Ban proposed paper-tube shelters to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and they hired him as a consultant. After the 1995 earthquake in Kobe, Japan, he again donated his time and talent. There, Ban developed the "Paper Log House", for vietnamese refugees in the area, with donated beer crates filled with sandbags for the foundation, he lined up the paper cardboard tubes vertically, to create the walls of the houses. Ban also designed "Paper Church", as a community center of paper tubes for the victims of Kobe. It was later disassembled and sent to Taiwan, and reconstructed there, in 2008.

Ban works with local victims, students, and other volunteers to get these disaster relief projects built. In 1995, he founded a non-governmental organization (NGO) called vAN: voluntary Architects' Network. With vAN, following earthquakes, tsunami, hurricanes, and war, he has conducted this work in Japan, Turkey, India, Sri Lanka, China, Haiti, Italy, New zealand, and currently, the Philippines.

The Pritzker Jury citation said "His creative approach and innovation, especially related to building materials and structures, not merely good intentions, are present in all his works. Through excellent design, in response to pressing challenges, Shigeru Ban has expanded the role of the profession; he has made a place at the table for architects to participate in the dialogue with governments and public agencies, philanthropists, and the affected communities. His sense of responsibility and positive action to create architecture of quality to serve society's needs, combined with his original approach to these humanitarian challenges, make this year’s winner an exemplary professional".

The award ceremony will take place on June 13, 2014, at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam,The Netherlands.

The Pritzker Architecture Prize was founded in 1979 by the late Jay A. Pritzker and his wife, Cindy. Its purpose is to honor annually a living architect whose built work demonstrates a combination of those qualities of talent, vision and commitment, which has produced consistent and signifcant contributions to humanity and the built environment through the art of architecture. The laureates receive a $100000 grant and a bronze medallion.

1 2014普利兹克建筑奖获奖人坂茂/2014 Pritzker Prize LaureateShigeru Ban（摄影/Photo：坂茂建筑师事务所/ Shigeru Ban Architects）

巴黎时间3月23日晚上，《世界建筑》有幸在巴黎蓬皮杜艺术中心广场的咖啡厅见到坂茂，在得知他成为2014普利兹克建筑奖得主的第一时间内，我们就获奖感受、城市、设计、材料、技术、社会等方面，对坂茂进行了采访。

坂茂：这是我接受的第一个单独的、正式的采访。

WA：您在获得这份建筑领域内的最高奖项之后有何感受？

坂茂：这是一种莫大的荣幸，我很难相信。我是在今年1月底的时候得到的消息，明天的大概这个时间将会在官网正式宣布。甚至是现在，我仍然很难相信，因为像很多著名建筑师，雷姆·库哈斯、罗伯特·文丘里、理查德·罗杰斯、让·努维尔、彼得·卒姆托，他们这样的高水平，使这个奖项代表真正的荣誉。而且，我认为我并没有在他们所代表的最高水平，我可能只在中等水平，还有很长的路要走。所以，我把这份奖，看作是对我的鼓励，让我继续做我所做的事情。

WA：您认为评审委员会最终选中您的原因是什么？

坂茂：我想我之所以被认可，是因为我扩展了建筑师这个职业的范畴和角色，不只是为富人和大开发商工作，我们更应该为经历自然灾害后失去住所的人们设计一些更好的东西。所以，我想我的个人声誉是完全不同的，而普利兹克基金会和评审委员会的认可，是如此的重要，他们不想再在明星建筑师里一个接一个地选择获奖人，他们想通过这样的方式来传达某种特别的信息。所以，我很高兴这次能被选中，因为我在做不同的现代建筑。我想设计漂亮的、舒适的房子，哪怕是为灾后而建的临时房子。所以，我不是名人，但这的确鼓励了我，继续做我所做的事情。

评审委员们希望选择那些在建筑领域内有自身独特的性格和特点，而不总是一些摩天大楼或者大型纪念性的建筑。所以，我想我被选中的原因，可能是因为我经历的援助救助项目，还有对于建筑设计，我有自己的解决方式。我为弱势群体以及那些遭受自然灾害的人们做设计。

WA：您能否概括一下自己的设计过程和方法？

坂茂：每一个新的项目，对我来说都有可能是一次新的挑战。首先，我会去看项目场地和业主，去找出他们所需要解决的难题。然后，我会跟当地的人们聊天，去发现他们的需求，他们都有些什么样的问题，还有我怎样才能通过设计来解决这些难题。接着，我会尝试着去找当地的材料，我会倾向于用一些可回收的、低成本的、可循环利用的并且在现场方便使用的材料。此外，我还会希望找当地的建筑工人来建造，因为灾难发生之后，一些人可能需要一份工作。其实有些时候，建设工人可以是任何人，像学生和志愿者，能够一起参与建造。

WA：您被大家所熟知的很重要原因是因为您在建筑中使用竹子、织物、硬纸管、塑料等材料，那么您选择某种特定材料的标准是什么？

坂茂：任何可以用的、当地的材料，我都感兴趣。我不想浪费任何材料，所以我尝试去用所有可用的材料。像硬纸管，原材料不贵，而且到处都有，无论是在成都，还是在菲律宾，任何一个地方都可以用。我给你看看我们正在菲律宾做的事情的照片。这是我的助理在现场拍的照片，你知道2013年11月菲律宾的“海燕”台风吗？这是我们正在做的事情，方案已经通过了，在菲律宾的宿务，是临时住所。这个是菲律宾的啤酒筐，我们把沙袋填进去来增加它的重量，这种塑料筐原本是用来装啤酒瓶子的，我们重新利用它在填充沙袋后作为地基，因为它在沙子放进去之前很轻，而且可以防水，这里经常下雨。硬纸管也是当地的，竹席子用作围护墙，大概有10m2大，可以一天之内建成，一般会用2～3年。

WA：您是如何定义“可持续性”的？

坂茂：我理解不了什么是可持续性，这是一个问题，而且是一个广告化的问题。因为它总是被用作广告，像可持续、生态、绿色等。如果生态和可持续的定义是不浪费，那么我很确定我在做什么。此外，有一些不同的方式在说可持续性，用了很昂贵的材料，比如，用一些非常贵的玻璃，为了达到所谓的可持续性，实际上是浪费了绿色的材料。但是我真的不知道什么是可持续性，什么是生态，因此我不会说生态友好，我做我想做的，而不是先有什么策略。

WA：您做了很多援助救助项目，我可以问您为什么会选择遭受灾害的人群作为您设计的服务对象？建筑设计和建筑师如何服务于弱势群体？

坂茂：因为我总是欢迎难题。如果给我一个不受限制的预算，随意的场地，让我做任何我想做的事情，但是事实上，我什么都做不了。我总是希望有一些难题，可能是场地条件很艰难，可能是预算很低，很多的限制条件，我很愿意通过设计来解决这些难题。如果给我一个毫无限制条件的项目，我可能什么都做不出来。我更愿意去面对所有的难题，之后通过设计来解决。但很多建筑师更倾向于去设计一个标志性的东西，没有任何限制条件，无限的预算，可以自由发挥。但我总是希望有限制条件，预算限制、场地限制、特定的业主等等，我倾向于去挑战这样的限制条件，并通过设计来解决问题，而不是没有限制地去做一个标志物。全球有很多优秀的建筑师在设计雄伟的标志性的建筑物，但是我更倾向于成为一个解决难题的特殊建筑师。我很享受其中的过程，总是在一个困难的情况下，找出问题，并通过设计来解决。这就是我的态度。

我们知道像医生、律师，他们总是在为有困难的人群工作。而当建筑师设计一个房子时，对于业主来说是一个幸运的时刻，开心、富有，建筑师在为幸福的人群工作。而医生和律师，他们服务的对象总是在困难的时刻。我觉得建筑师也应该看到这样处在困难中的人群，像遭受自然灾害后失去家园和产业的人们，我觉得这是我们的责任。建筑师、医生、律师都有较高的社会地位，但是只有建筑师没有在服务社会，但却是我们应该去做的。这是我最初的想法，建筑师为什么会这样的幸运，我们应该做得更多。当我为经历自然灾害的人们建造好临时的房子，他们搬进去并且觉得很舒适，我会觉得非常开心和满足。即使没有给我相应的酬劳也没有关系。我的兴趣在于给人创造美妙的、舒适的空间，否则，我们需要做的就只是一个雕塑了。

当我在灾区工作时，我的感受是自己像一个外科大夫，应该投入百分之百的专业性去操作一个手术，而不是去怜悯病人。

WA：您刚才提到了“标志性”建筑，您是怎样定义“标志性”的？

坂茂：“标志性”需要在很长一段时期内都具有特殊性。“不寻常的”和“独特的”是有区别的，“不寻常的”是容易被厌倦的，而“独特的”是有独特的想法在其中，不容易被厌倦。“不寻常的”可以是在任何一个地方，仅仅是不寻常，没有任何的功能和意义。而“独特的”具有功能的意义，可以继续发展。

WA：有没有“独特的”例子呢？

坂茂：像是弗雷·奥托设计的慕尼黑奥林匹克竞赛场，阿尔瓦·阿尔托在芬兰设计的房子等。

WA：至今为止，您最为满意的作品是哪一个？

坂茂：每一个作品我都很喜欢，因为正如我之前所说的，每一个项目都不一样，我都用心去做。

WA：上周四我去梅斯看了您在那里设计的蓬皮杜

艺术梅斯中心，一下火车站就看到了。您对这个项目有什么看法呢？

坂茂：当我去梅斯的时候，很多人过来跟我说，“非常感谢您为我们城市设计了这样一座漂亮的建筑”。我觉得这个时候，做一个具有标志性的建筑，才是为人、为公众、为社会所做的，当地人会因此而感到自豪。

WA：获此奖项后，您觉得会有何变化吗？

坂茂：不会的，我想我不会扩大我们工作室的规模，甚至有可能缩减。我希望保证我们每个项目的质量，因为对我来说，最重要的不是房子的规模，不是项目的大小，不是数量，而是质量。

WA：我的意思是，官方宣布之后，全球各地都会有关于您的新闻和消息，到那时，可能会有很多业主和项目来找您，您对此的态度是？

坂茂：我觉得这是很危险的，正像你所说的，这个奖项可能会带给我很多很多的机会，我需要很谨慎。事实上，在任何情况下我都不想扩大我们的规模，东京工作室有20多人，巴黎有40多人，我觉得这个规模已经很大了。有关今后的项目和业主，我仍然倾向于为弱势群体做设计，像是遭受自然灾害的人、低收入的人、乡村的居民等。因为他们相比其他人有更多的困难，我想帮助他们来解决困难，例如灾后的居住问题、基本生活条件、精神健康恢复等，我想我们应该更多地关注这些问题。而富有并拥有实力的业主，事实上他们并没有很多问题，他们中的一些人所追求的或许只是更多利益，或者做一个标志建筑以让人们记住他。

WA：如果有一个很大的项目，比如说是大城市中心的政府建筑，您将怎样对待？

坂茂：虽然我也很喜欢设计文化类的项目，但我也很想为有着特殊困难的少数群体设计社区中心，而不是服务于大开发商。我对于大的商业项目没有太多兴趣，因为他们大多只是把建筑师作为项目的品牌标识。如果是这样的话，我可能会拒绝。

还好，有很多建筑师在做这样的项目，可能我是在美国受的建筑学教育，我没有在这个主流趋势中，我离得有些远，我有自己的特点和位置吧。

WA：对于改善我们的居住环境有何建议吗？像空气、温湿度、绿化等，您知道现在的北京……

坂茂：我觉得是时候安静一些下来了，甚至需要更慢一点。北京这种PM2.5的问题其实东京在20～30年前也有同样的问题。我想我们应该建立一个良好的关系，你知道的，如果彼此不携起手来，就没有未来。

In the evening of 23thMarch, local time, in Paris, we had an opportunity to meet Shigeru Ban at Cafe Beaubourg, at the south side of the Pompidou Centre Plaza in Paris. Right at the moment of the frst announcements that he was awarded the 2014 Pritzker Prize, we had an interview with him about his attitude after winning the award, and the topics of urban design, architecture, material, technology, and society.

Shigeru Ban (Ban): This is the first interview formally and individually...

WA: What's your feeling after being awarded the Pritzker Prize, architecture's top honor?

Ban: It's a great honor for me, and I just can't believe it. I knew I was chosen in the end of January, I can't believe it, because there are many other great architects, like Rem Koolhaas, Robert venturi, Richard Rogers, Jean Nouvel...this certain level, which makes this award a real award, because their level. And I don't think I am at the same top level as them, I think I am just at the middle level. There is still a long way to go for me in architecture. So, I see this prize as an encouragement for me to keep doing what I have been doing.

WA: Do you have any thoughts about possible reasons why the Jury has selected you?

Ban: I think that I was recognized because I made the role of architects wider, to not only work for rich people, or big developers. We can design something better even for the people who lose the houses following a natural disaster. So, my reputation is totally different. I think the Pritzker foundation, the jury, recognizes that it's so important not to just chose famous architects one by one, they want to give some special message with this. So, this year, I am very happy I was chosen, because I am doing modern architecture differently, I want to design beautiful comfortable buildings even for the people and minorities after natural disasters that destroyed their homes. So, in that case, I'm not really...I 'm not a celebrity, but this encourages me, that I have to continue doing what I have been doing.

Juries try to select someone who maybe has special character in the field of architecture, not always the skyscraper or the big monumental buildings. So, I think maybe I was chosen because of my experience in disaster relief work and my own way of fnding architecture design solutions. I design for the vulnerable group and disaster victims.

WA: Generally speaking, what's your design process and method?

Ban: If there is a new project, there might be a new challenge for me. First I go to visit the site and client to find out what's their problem. Then I talk to the local people, try to fnd out what they need and what kind of problems they have, and in which way I can solve their problems by design. Then I try to find local materials, which better be recyclable and low-cost, reusable, and readily available on site. Meanwhile, I also try to fnd local construction workers to build, because some of them need a job after the disaster. But sometimes construction workers could be anyone, students and volunteers, working together.

WA: You are especially known for some of the materials that you have been using, like bamboo, fabric, paper tubes, and plastics. What's your standard to chose a particular architecture's materials?

Ban: Any locally available, is very interesting. I don't like to waste any material, I try to use any material available. For example, paper tubes are cheap and locally available everywhere, in Chengdu, even in the Philippines, it's available everywhere. Let me show you what I am doing in Philippines, I bring the photo.

This is a photo taken by my assistant in the Philippines, you remember the Typhoon Haiyan there last year? This is what I am doing, this proposal has been agreed. It's in Philippines Cebu, temporary shelters, this is Philippines beer crate, we fill sandbags inside to make it weight, this plastic crate used to be encased beer bottles, and we reuse them as foundation, because it's very light before put sandbags inside, and is water-proofed, there is much rain. Paper tubes are also from local, bamboo mat for the wall, around 10 square meters, can be built in one day, we can send you photo. Normally, these kind of houses will be used for 2-3 years.

WA: How do you defne sustainability?

Ban: I cannot understand what is sustainability, It's a question, and it's a commercial question. Because

it's used commercially: sustainable, ecological, green. If that ecology or sustainable definition is about not wasting, then I'm not wondering about what I am doing. Also, there are different ways of talking about sustainability using very expensive material, some glass, to make it very sustainable, but it's very expensive to make, and also a waste of green materials. But I don't know nearly know what is sustainable, what is ecological, that's why I don’t want to say ecological friendly, I always do want I want to do, I have nothing to do with this kind of strategy.

2.3 成都华林小学纸管临时校舍，成都，中国/Hualin Temporary Elementary School, Chengdu, China, 2008（摄影/Photos:vAN/voluntary Architects' Network）4 建筑师志愿者在搭建临时庇护所，宿务，菲律宾/ Temporary Shelters made by vAN, Cebu, the Philippines（摄影/Photo：坂茂建筑师事务所/Shigeru Ban Architects）5.6 蓬皮杜梅斯中心，梅斯，法国/Centre Pompidou-Metz, France, 2010（摄影/Photo: 都文娟/DU Wenjuan）

WA: You built many disaster relief projects, may I ask why you chose disaster victims as the group who you really design for? And how architecture and architects achieve the service at the vulnerable people?

Ban: Because I always welcome the problems. If I am given an unlimited budget, a free site, I can do anything I want, but in fact I cannot do anything. I always want have some problem, maybe the site is difcult, budget is low, so many limitations, I'd like to solve the problem through the design. If I'm given a project without restriction, I cannot do anything. I feel more comfortable to accept all problems, to solve by design. But many architects prefer to design a monument with enormous budget, freedom, without any restriction. But I always want to have restrictions, budget restriction, site restriction, particular client... I prefer to challenge this kind of thing and solve by design, instead of making a monument without any restriction.That's...otherwise, there are so many great architects all of the world design wonderful monuments, but I'd like to be particular architect and solve problems. I enjoy the process. I always go to difcult situation to fnd out problems and solve through the design.That's my attitude.

We know medical doctors, lawyers, they always work for people who have problems. Being architects, when we design a house, that moment is a very lucky moment for certain people, they are so happy, lucky, rich, so architects can work with people who enjoy a good moment. But lawyers and medical doctors, they always work for people who start from such an unhappy moment. So I think architects also have to meet people who have problems, such as the people who have lost their houses following a natural disaster, and I think this is our responsibility. Architects, lawyers and medical doctors all have an important position in society, but only as architects, we are not just a service at the society, but we have to do it. That's what I thought originally. Why architects have been so lucky? We have to do more. After I built a temporary housing for people after a natural disaster, they moved inside and felt very comfortable, I felt very happy and very satisfied with this. Even though I'm not paid, this doesn't matter. My interest is making a wonderful and comfortable space for people.

My feeling when I work in disaster area is like a surgeon, who should be totally professional to perform an operation instead of being sympathetic to patients.

WA: You mentioned the word "Monument" just now, and how do you defne it?

Ban: "Monument" has to be special for long time. 'unusual' is different from "unique", "unusual" is getting bored easily, but "unique" is with a unique idea, not easy to be bored. "unusual" can be everywhere, it's just unusual, without any function, no meaning. But "unique" has the meaning of function, which continues to develop further.

WA: Any example for Unique?

Ban: Like Munich Olympic Stadium designed by Frei Otto, and Alvar Aalto's architecture in Finland...

WA: Which project do you like most so far since you started Shigeru Ban Architects in 1985?

Ban: Every project is my favorite, as I said, because each one is very diferent and I put my heart into all of them.

WA: When I went to Metz last Thursday, I saw the Centre Pompidou-Metz as soon as I arrived the Metz station, how do you think about this project?

Ban: When I went to Metz, many people came to tell me, "thank you very much for building such a beautiful building for our city", I think that's the moment we feel making a monument is like making for the people and the public, so that the society, local people can be proud of it.

WA: Is there anything will change after this award?

Ban: Not really, I think I won't increase the size of our office, may even be reduced in some way. And I want to guarantee the quality on each of our projects. Because the most important for me about architecture is not the scale, is not the size of the project, it's the quality, not quantity.

WA: I mean after the official announcement, the whole world will be full of the big news about you. At the same time, many more clients and projects will come to you perhaps, and what's your attitude towards this?

Ban: I think it's very dangerous. As you said, this award may be giving many things, many opportunities, I should be careful. Actually, in any case, I don't want to expand my office, the Tokyo ofce has 20+ staf, and Paris has 40+. I think this is already too big for me. About the future projects and clients, I still continue to design for the vulnerable groups, like disaster victims, low-income people, rural residents...Because they have more problems than the others, housing and living conditions of people, mental and health problems after disasters. I think we have to pay close attention to those problems. On the other hand, the rich and powerful clients, in fact, don't have too many problems, some of them only want proft or one monument to be remembered.

WA: If there is a big project come to you, maybe a government building in the center of a big city, how would you face it?

Ban: Although I would also like to design cultural institutions, I feel also comfortable working for minorities, people who have particular problem, designing a house or community center, not working for a big developer. I have less interest in doing a big commercial project, because they just use architects as branding. If that's the case, maybe I will reject.

It's fne, there are many architects who do that.Though I studied architecture in US, I'm not inside this big stream, I'm just away from this main stream. I have my own personality and my own position.

WA: Any advice to improve our environmental conditions like air, temperature, humidity and vegetation, for example in Beijing?

Ban: I think it's time to stay a little bit quiet, even to slow down. This issue of PM2.5, Tokyo had the same problem 20～30 years ago. I think we have to build a good relationship, you know, there is no future if we don't collaborate with each other.