Deadlines do not Create New Ideas

By Xu Keyue

American and Australian professor Craig Roberts joined the School of Physics at Nanjing University in September 2019.

Professor Roberts received a doctorate in theoretical physics from Flinders University of South Australia in 1988. From 2001 to 2017, he was the leader of the Theory Group in the Physics Division at Argonne National Laboratory. He was both the youngest and longest serving person to hold this position.

Professor Roberts conducts a broad-ranging research program in modern nuclear and particle theory, pursuing the development and refinement of novel theoretical approaches to hadroparticle physics and strong-coupling quantum field theory.He is the world’s leading practitioner of non-perturbative continuum methods in quantum chromodynamics (QCD), which is thought to describe strong interactions within the Standard Model of particle physics.

As of December 2020, Professor Roberts has published 214 articles in peer-reviewed journals and has been cited over 17,000 times.

Question: What was your first impression of China?

A: I first visited China for a conference in Beijing in 2006. I quickly discovered that my preconceived notions about the country were completely wrong. Before I came, I was reluctant to visit China. But once I did, I was very pleased with what I found, and decided to return as often as possible.

I found the people to be extraordinarily welcoming and hospitable; and interested in research, science and education. And with the curiosity to pursue new lines of research, I began many collaborations with Chinese scientists.

Question: When did you come to Nanjing to work as a professor?

A: In 2019, I arrived in Nanjing and began work at Nanjing University. My decision to move was influenced by the realization that the national laboratory environment in the United States that I was working in was no longer conducive to basic science. Bureaucracy had replaced common sense. I pursued opportunities elsewhere at other universities, including those in the United States and Europe. However, Nanjing University provided an offer that was more competitive and desirable than the other places I was considering. Nanjing university, a world leading university, has a policy of internationalization and I’m an example of that. They provided me with incentives and even facilitated my relocation to Nanjing.

Question: Can you tell us some more about your life in China?

A: I enjoy it. My wife, son and I are all very happy. We find Nanjing to be a city that is both Chinese and international. It’s nice to have some things that are familiar among the things that are unusual and stimulating. It’s both very Chinese and has the small things that Westerners like, such as coffee houses and things like that. So, our impressions of Chinese life are very positive.

Question: Can you tell us one thing that impressed you during your work and life in Nanjing?

A: One thing? There are so many things! I’ve been coming to China for 14 years, so I had developed an understanding of what to expect in China. However, my wife and son had never been here before. They first came to China in May 2019. Before they came here, they were very reluctant. However, after staying here for one week, they became convinced that living in China was a good idea.

There are many special things about China. My son likes the extremely good high-speed rail network. I enjoy the good public transportation system and the quality of students and the universities and research here. My wife enjoys the fresh opportunities to be engaged in a new culture. She’s teaching German here.

There is a vast array of new opportunities. If I have to say one thing, it’s of the feeling of a breath of fresh air. To put it another way, living in China offers a new way of looking at life.

Question: As you mentioned, you and your family were reluctant to come to China. Why?

A: My opinion changed quickly when I began visiting here regularly in 2006. My wife and son had never been to China. Before I accepted the position here in Nanjing, I needed to bring them to China so they could see the country for themselves. They quickly became convinced that the nature and the society was very livable.

Question: What was your impression of China before you came here?

A: I just held standard Western prejudices. The realities of China are still largely unknown to Westerners and they are therefore frightened of it. Even now, when we talk about our experience in China to our relatives abroad, they are typically skeptical. They are reluctant to believe us when we tell them positive stories about China. The positive image challenges them.

Question: You came to China in 2006 when the SARS epidemic broke out. What are the differences between China’s fight against SARS and COVID-19?

A: Certainly, I think that China has created a successful model to combat the COVID-19 epidemic. The beginning was chaotic,as the epidemic was a completely new challenge, but China’s approach to controlling the virus, limiting its spread, and closing down the country, eliminated the real threat within three to five months.

The West has not yet grappled with that. China’s government invested in the survival of its people and supporting industry and technology to keep society running during the epidemic.Meanwhile, Western governments appear to have placed greater importance on economics than human life.

Due to the particular features of the virus, complete isolation,or social distancing, is an essential part of the control mechanism. However, many Western people are refusing to engage or follow any instructions to that effect. This is very troubling and is damaging to the international economy.

Meanwhile, China has coped extremely well. All of my students are back to school and we benefit from face-to-face communication. This is not possible in the West.

Question: You said you are pretty satisfied with your work and life in China. So, what did you expect before coming to China?

A: It’s better than I expected. I expected a good academic environment, but the social environment is much better than I imagined.

As I said before, Nanjing is multicultural and also very livable.It’s a compact megacity, but there are many green areas in and around the city. There is space to breathe. It’s not like how one would imagine living in the heart of a mega city. There are 10.5 million people in Nanjing, which is a lot, but you don’t necessarily feel that when living in the city.

Question: Did you travel to other cities in China?

A: Since the virus I’ve made only one trip, and that was to Lanzhou, in northwest China’s Gansu province. Before the epidemic, I had visited Beijing often. I’ve also been to Hefei, Wuhan,Jilin, Weihai, and Tianjin. We are very enthusiastic about going to Yunnan Province, which surprisingly to us, has some of the world’s finest coffee.

Question: Currently, both China-U.S. and China-Australia relations are frosty and marred by confrontation and provocation. How do you feel about it? What do you think of cooperation and competition between big countries?

A: This is a complex issue. In science and basic research, I do not see conflict. However, politically, there are many conflicts.Actually, the Trump regime in the U.S. caused conflicts with many countries.

Interactions between China and the U.S. were greatly harmed by the previous U.S. administration. The Australian government appears to have chosen to follow Trump’s lead and has acted similarly.

For me, basic science is open. So long as it remains open, the chances for growth and innovation in science and technology in China will be strong. Imposing borders to basic research would not be beneficial to anybody.

Question: You mentioned that basic research is open and now China is encouraging more cooperation between universities and institutions.How do you see this trend?

A: It’s very good to consolidate and expand. No one person can have all the best ideas. Interaction between people is essential to find the best solution to any problem. China has a vast pool of the world’s most intelligent people, but that’s still not enough.

The world is a big place and engagement between scientists has produced some of the most fascinating developments. Basic research is the way for any country to become strong. The strongest countries are those that invest most heavily in opening their science, technology and innovation sectors.

Those countries that can’t afford it will not catch up and they will fall very far behind. China is grappling with that challenge. China is a complex society with a first-rate tech sector and many top-ranking universities, but there are also many disadvantaged people whose quality of life needs to be improved.So, the challenges China faces are also enormous. China has the potential to grow much more.

On the other hand, I should say that the health care system in China is open to foreigners. It’s a model for the world to follow and it’s extraordinarily good. We’ve benefited from that enormously. So this is a wonderful feature of Chinese society that everyone has access to top quality medical care. This is a rare thing in the West.

Question: During your time at Nanjing university, have you cooperated with foreign universities?

A: I was supported to internationalize the university, to bring foreigners in and to help Chinese people go abroad for threemonth visits, for example, to get international experience. The virus has stopped that.

The plan is that we will host many international meetings here in Nanjing. Those meetings will bring scientists together from all over China and around the world to Nanjing. Typically, a group of 100 international experts will attend our international meetings. We’ll have a conversation for a week, but also bring scientists in for periods of, say, two weeks at a time to engage and, interact with the students here. Our plan is to make Nanjing a center for a top-quality research in nuclear and particle physics.

Question: You mentioned that scientists are reluctant to come to China. So, what would you say to convince them?

A: Engagement. I am here and my experience is good, so I am able to communicate openly and honestly that China is a great place to work. I am actively trying to encourage foreign researchers to migrate into China.

However, some things need to be simplified for immigrants,such as banking access and schooling. Schooling is important. I could not have come to Nanjing unless there was a good international school for my son. My son doesn’t speak Chinese, so he needs to be schooled in an English language school. This is a challenge for China as a whole in particular. So, I think the internationalization of China is in China’s best interests; and that doesn’t mean that you will be overrun by foreigners.

There is reluctance to move here by Western people, because many have an unrealistic view of China. Lots of Western media tell and repeat stories. People don’t have or don’t seek any other source of information. So only when people come to China can they see for themselves what it really is. Seeing is believing.

China has so many resources, human resources, and potential for growth.

Question: Please tell us about your students.

A: Nanjing university has some of the world’s best students. It’s quite remarkable. They are genuinely creative. I’m able to simply sketch a task and they are able to solve and invent new approaches to the problems. They are certainly world-beating students. However, it’s hardly unexpected at Nanjing University,one of the top universities in China. I’ve also dealt with students at Peking University and similar statements can be said about them. So, the top universities in China have the top students in the world.

The challenges that are faced relate to opening the minds of these students to think in innovative ways, because passing exams is not creative thinking; that’s different.

They have the capacity and the potential. This is what makes the opportunity in Nanjing so promising, because the pool is so rich and the capacity is so great. One just needs to find the right key.

Question: Do you have plan to stay longer in Nanjing or move somewhere else in China? What factors about Nanjing attract you?

A: I do not see any reason to leave Nanjing. I plan to be here for a long time.

One reason is the quality of life. Nanjing is a city with many appealing aspects. It is a big city and it has lots of high-tech resources. It also has recreational opportunities, green lands and parks. Western people are spoiled. We expect to have parks, coffee shops and restaurants as part of life. As a mega city, which is thriving, Nanjing has all of this. In addition, Jiangsu province is very rich and invested heavily in high-tech education and so forth. Nanjing also has an airport, which one can get in and out of easily. It was one of the reasons I came to Nanjing. My normal lifestyle would be to travel 200,000 kilometers a year. So, having an international airport was important. Maybe when the virus is gone, it will return to something like that.

The simple answer to your question is that Nanjing is a livable city, with investment and potential in all the things that make high-tech life possible, plus a good university system.Question: As China returns to normal, what do you think about China continuing to open its borders to import things and cooperate with other countries.

A: I think it’s necessary. I don’t think China can achieve its full potential in any other way. China should engage to the fullest possible extent for the reasons we discussed before.

Openness, it’s the only way to reach the full potential of any population.

Question: During the 14th Five-Year Plan (2021-25) period, China will highlight innovation and technology. What do you expect in the future to extend research and corporation in your field?

A: We could speak for a very long time about what I expect over the next 20 years. But put simply: innovation.

The brain, how does it work? I think that would open many doors if we could work out how the human brain functions and how we think. Then we could do an enormous number of remarkable things.

We talk about artificial intelligence (AI) all the time. People always say AI but no one really knows what AI is. We certainly cannot make an artificial brain; we can’t make thoughts and;we can’t make dreams. To make a breakthrough, many people think, it is necessary to actually track how the brain operates and that’s an enormous mapping exercise.

There are billions upon billions of electrical circuits in the brain. You need to find out where they are, how they communicate, and how the tracks between them are built. We did the human genome project, we tracked the human genome,that was an enormous project. The brain is infinitely more complex.

China has the capacity to be a world leader in high-tech, in basic research, and in education, but it requires investment and requires, in a sense, emulating what the West has done and then beating it at its own game.China has an open education system. The best people can go to university without having to pay for it. Germany is similar in this. Germany therefore has a very strong technology base and China must move towards that. China must produce high-tech goods rather than import them. Germany does that and Germany is the envy of the world because of its success in these areas.

You have to start somewhere. An acknowledgment of the challenge is the beginning. It will take 20 to 30 years to achieve some of these goals.

But you must plan now. And the leaders must plan for the generations that follow. Your generation will need and encounter new things, and you will need to adapt to them. Planning and education will have to be put in place now. In science, people today plan for facilities that will not operate for another 15 years.We do this not because we will use them, but because we know that if we do not plan for this, then those who could use them will have nothing to do. And that would mean an end to this branch of science and technology. It is like a tree growing with the branches coming up. You must first have the trunk. And from the trunk all the branches flow.

Question: What are the advantages China has in this field and what does it need to improve?

A: China has an enormous human resources pool and a good university system. What is missing is an export-oriented education system. This is hard to achieve because, put simply, the U.S.,Australia, Canada, U.K., all speak English. They attract the best people from all over the world into their universities. Language could be a barrier for attracting talents.

China is exporting people to the West’s best universities. It would be better to import the best students from the West to China’s universities and keep China’s best at home, too. If you can attract the Chinese minds from abroad back to China, and if you succeed in attracting top quality minds from other countries into China, then your education system can really achieve its full potential.

Question: Do you have any foreign students in Nanjing University?

Competition is not bad. We play sports all the time and winning is okay. It’s good to compete to see what others have done,to track how they have achieved it and to try and do better.

There is a map. You can trace what the West has done and China has its own series of challenges. But it can also follow the path that has been pursued in the West.

I think Germany is a great example. China has some similarities.

A: Not yet. But we’re trying to attract them. The virus has posed a real challenge. We had international advertisements for post docs.

We had a chance to bring them in. However, the challenge, as usual, is the West’s distorted view of life in China. It is something that has to be overcome. I’m confident we can do that and attract top foreign talent.

Clearly, we can’t have foreigners coming into Nanjing right now because of the virus. We have to wait. We had planned conferences and workshops in May, 2020. Again, we just had to postpone them because they would not be optimal. If hosted online,how do we tell people that China is a great place and that Nanjing is a great place to live? How can we tell them this through Zoom or Tencent meetings? It’s not possible. It’s just talk. They have to come and see for themselves.

Question: Compared with Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, , what advantages does Nanjing have?

A: I don’t wish to live in these other cities. Beijing is exciting, but it’s too big. Similar things apply to the others. About Nanjing, I can speak positively. As I’ve said a number of times,Nanjing is an extremely livable city. When we advertise for our postdocs, we can highlight this for Western people. I have read articles by Westerners who have lived in Nanjing and then traveled abroad. They write articles saying that Nanjing has spoiled the rest of the world for them because Nanjing is so livable. The cost of living is too high in cities like London and Paris. Meanwhile, Berlin has clubs and quality nightlife, but again, it’s very expensive; and its public transport system is not as good as that in Nanjing.

Question: We would like to know about your field of research. Can you explain it in a simple way?

A: The simplest way to say this is that I’m studying how the universe appeared 1/1000000 of a second after the big bang. I’m trying to understand how almost all the visible mass in the universe appeared.

Your body is made of cells. Those cells are made of molecules and atoms. Inside these is the nucleus, which is a peculiar thing.The proton is the heart of the hydrogen atom.

Perhaps from the beginning of human existence, everybody has asked, how did I get here? As a scientist, I think that there’s a mathematical answer. One of the keys is this proton that lives in hydrogen. It is the most abundant atom in the entire universe. Isolated protons never break apart. That is a key to our existence. If the proton did decay, like everything else does, we couldn’t be here.

We’ve been working on this for 50 years. This is basic research.And that’s why I tell my students and postdocs and early career researchers, when you get up in the morning, you must have a reason to go to work. It’s not enough to say it’s my job.

You must get up in the morning and say: Today, I’m going to discover something new. That’s what you have to think. Otherwise, there’s no point being a scientist.

Question: How does your research connect and relate to our daily lives?

A: There are many connections but they’re not always direct.In everyday life, you are likely taking for granted the results of over 100 years of basic research. So, what we do now is an investment in the future.

What we create will hopefully make the future better, and not too damaging, because we’ve done that in the past too.

Basic research is the only way to guarantee that discoveries will be made. You can’t guarantee what you will discover, but the opportunity to make discoveries is what funding basic research provides.

I will paraphrase Einstein and say that you need to allow people to become bored. Boredom is essential to creativity. If you occupy your hands all the time, then you will never use your mind to create something. People who plug their ears into music or news broadcasts all the time, leave no space for the emptiness that’s necessary to encourage creativity.

Creativity is something that is possible for all people. But what’s missing for most is the space and time to create. We have people who must work and they must work to support their families.These people sometimes make time to create.

But the most creative minds need to be free to think. Those creative people should not be required to meet pointless deadlines.Nanjing University has provided me with this academic freedom, which is one of the big reasons why I came here.

You need to have space, you need to have an open-ended time to think. Now I am free to think. You cannot insist that a person“deliver a new idea by Friday.” It doesn’t work that way. It’s not simple inspiration, it’s not just lying around doing nothing.

There’s work involved. You have to work, read, and explore. It’s tinkering. The great experimentalists of the past discovered new things by taking what they had and doing different things with them. Suddenly, new arrangements were found.

This is the nature of creativity. The artist begins with a blank canvas. A great novel starts with an empty page.