母女情深

Robert Siegel （Host）： Now a story about a mother and daughter bound through impersonation. Comedian Maria Bamford imitates her mother for laughs on stage. And that got NPRs Alix Spiegel wondering about how that mightve affected their relationship.

Alix Spiegel （Byline）： In her professional life， Maria Bamford often plays her mom.

（Soundbite of archived recording）

Maria Bamford： My mom—Ill tell you a little about myself. My mom told me before I went to my first girl-boy party in the eighth grade， she said， “OK， remember what we talked about—gonorrhea， syphilis， herpes， one， two. Watch the cold sores. Date rape is a lot more common than people think. You look so gorgeous. Oh， Jennys moms here to pick you up. Well， have a good time.”（Laughter）

Spiegel： Bits like this are standard in Bamfords act. Sometimes， the version of her mom that she plays is just funny because the mom can be so charmingly upbeat about the horrors of the world that its hilarious. But sometimes the imitation feel like theyre about elements in their relationship that have a darker side， like in this YouTube bit she did.

（Soundbite of YouTube video）

Maria： So sweetie you taking a shower？ Can I just get in there real quick and just show you something？ Oh， I didnt know you were naked. Oh， sweetie， listen， if you want to get breast implants， we will support you—not financially， but emotionally.

Spiegel： So what happens when you mess in a very public way with an entanglement thats pretty complicated already—the emotional entanglement between mother and daughter—how does that affect things？ On two different days， in two different states， with the blessing of both， we spoke to Maria and her mom， whose name is Marilyn Bamford， about this. We started with Maria， who said her mom imitations were some of the very first comedy bits she ever did and that， in the beginning， she did them to get a kind of distance or control over her relationship with her mother.

Maria： For me， it was a time in life of， like， detaching from my family or detaching from， you know， what I think they want me to be. Like， my mom， I remember she did—or what I heard her say—of course， she may have a different feeling of what she said at the time， but she said if you dont wear makeup…

（Soundbite of archived recording）

Maria： …Honey， when you dont wear makeup， you look mentally ill. So now， when I go home， Im certain to wear thick， green eye shadow and a line of lipstick around my lips. Uh？ Baby look pretty now， mommy？

（Laughter）

Marilyn Bamford： Oh， it feels like shes got me down perfectly in terms of voice， cadence， vocabulary. You know， shes…

Spiegel： And what about the things that you say？ I mean…

Marilyn： Well， quite a bit of that is not exactly what I say. The one I think about was the one where she has me saying when you dont wear lipstick， you look mentally ill.

Spiegel： Yeah.

Marilyn： And she and I have gone back and forth about that because I—I know I didnt say it that way. I said you look depressed. I mean， thats my memory of it. On the other hand， she remembers what she remembers.

Spiegel： But， still， Marilyn doesnt seem disturbed at all by her daughters impression of her， even by the things that she feels are misrepresentations of what she said or how she is. She sees the impression as helpful.

Marilyn： And so when I say something like， oh， I dont think I said that， and then we have a discussion about it， it is helpful in the end. But I know there are probably some times where I have chosen not to say anything about it because Im not sure I want to discuss it or have the energy to discuss it.

Maria： You know， I think the real reason youre down is because youre 36， and you look 36. And thats hard.

Spiegel： Do you learn anything about yourself from watching her imitation of you？

Marilyn： Oh， yes （laughter）. I kind of remind myself of my mother. My mother was a believer that you put your lipstick on and you powdered your nose. And I think I see that there in myself and I say， oh， no （laughter）. I dont wanna be that way. But， what can you do？

Spiegel： And speaking of the inevitable gravity of being your mother， though Maria Bamford started her imitation to detach from her mom， it ended up having the reverse effect. It brought her closer.

Maria： Like， it cheers me up to think about what she would say about things. Like， I like the idea that she has a certain point of view on life and things are certain or—or if I—if shes not around， I can make her be around. In terms of， like， I would like to be more like her as I get older. Like， Im hoping that my impersonation just bleeds into—Im her （laughter） as I grow older.

Spiegel： Are you really hoping that？

Maria： Yeah. You know， I could just be the full-on Marilyn Bamford because shes a very likable person， you know？ Shes always bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. Its like， oh， honey， were going—were in Turkey and I wanted to call you because the hotel next door is on fire and your father is Vining it. We are going to have dinner tonight in the town square and everybodys out…

Spiegel： And Marilyn Bamford， in her own way， has experienced an unanticipated benefit from her daughters impressions of her.

Marilyn： I think that many women my age who are， you know， catching up with 70， you know， feel kind of invisible. So therefore， when you have your daughter doing these really wonderful and gifted impressions of you， it makes you kind of immortal in some way. And thats kind of a lovely thing to happen at this age.

羅伯特·西格尔（主持人）：现在讲一个通过模仿来维系母女感情的故事。喜剧演员玛利亚·班福德在舞台上通过模仿自己的妈妈来逗乐观众。NPR新闻的阿里克斯·施皮格尔好奇这会对她们母女的关系有什么影响。

阿里克斯·施皮格尔（撰稿人）：在她的职业生涯中，玛利亚·班福德经常扮演她的妈妈。

（表演原声片段）

玛利亚·班福德：我的妈妈——我告诉你们一些我的事。在我8年级第一次参加男女派对前，我妈对我说：“好吧，记得我们之前说过的话——淋病、梅毒、疱疹病毒I型、II型。小心唇疱疹。在约会中被强暴比人们想的更加常见。你看起来美极了。噢，珍妮的妈妈来接你了。好吧，祝你玩得开心。”

（笑）

施皮格尔：这些都是班福德的常规表演。有时候，她扮演的妈妈真的很有趣，因为面对这个可怕的世界，妈妈乐天派的精神确实很逗乐。但是有时候玛利亚的表演也让人感觉到她们（母女间）关系的阴暗面，像是这个她在YouTube（上传）的表演片段。（YouTube视频的原声片段）

玛利亚：那么亲爱的，你在洗澡吗？我能快点进来给你看点东西吗？噢，我不知道你光着身子。噢，亲爱的，听着，如果你想要隆胸，我们会支持你的——不是在经济上，而是在精神上。

施皮格尔：那么当你把已经很复杂的纠缠——母女间的感情纠葛公开地表现出来的时候，会有什么样的影响呢？在两个不同的日子里，在两个不同的州，经过她们两人的同意，我们分别采访了玛利亚和她的妈妈——玛里琳·班福德。我们首先采访了玛利亚，她说对妈妈的模仿是她最早期的一些喜剧片段。在刚开始的时候，她这样做是为了能让自己与母亲的关系保持一定的距离，得到一定的控制。

玛利亚：对我来说，在人生的这段时光里，我脱离了我的家庭，或者说摆脱了他们希望我成为的样子。就像我妈妈，我记得她说过——或者我曾听到她说——当然，她对自己那时说的话可能有不同的感悟，但是她说如果你不化妆……

（表演原声片段）

玛利亚：……亲爱的，当你不化妆的时候，看起来就像个精神病。所以现在，当我回到家，我肯定都画着浓厚的绿色眼影，嘴上涂着厚重的唇膏。呃？宝宝现在看起来漂亮吧，妈妈？

（笑）

玛里琳·班福德：噢，她学我的声音、语调和用词，这真的让我很伤脑筋。你懂的，她……

施皮格尔：那么你说过的那些话呢？我的意思是……

玛里琳： 很大一部分都不是我所说的。我介意的是她学我说：“当你不化妆的时候，看起来就像个神经病”。

施皮格尔：嗯。

玛里琳：我和她讨论这事好几回了——因为我知道我没有这样说过。我说的是你看起来很沮丧。我的意思是，我记忆中是这样的。相反的，她只记得她印象中的事。

施皮格尔：但是，玛里琳看起来一点也没有因为女儿的模仿而感到困扰，即使是那些她认为对她说的话的错误表达或者对她本人错误的理解也是如此。她把这模仿看成是有用的。

玛里琳：所以当我说：“噢，我不认为我说过这些”，然后我们就会开始讨论这件事，所以最后是有收益的。但是我有些时候选择了沉默，因为我不确定我愿意或者有精力去讨论这些事。

玛利亚：你知道吗，我认为你不开心的真正原因是你36岁了，而你看起来就像36岁，这真的很糟糕。

施皮格尔：看着她对你的模仿，你有从自己身上了解到什么吗？

玛里琳：噢，有啊（笑）。我想起了我的妈妈。我妈妈坚信你必须涂唇膏、在鼻子上抹粉。我想我从（玛利亚的模仿中）也看到了那样的自己，然后我说：“噢，不（笑）。我不想变成那个样子。”但是，你又能怎样呢？

施皮格尔：说到不可避免地做了你的母亲——虽然玛利亚·班福德开始是为了疏远她的妈妈而模仿她，最后却有了相反的效果。她和妈妈更亲近了。

玛利亚：就像，想着她会如何说话就会让我很振奋。我很喜欢她对生活有一定的看法——或者如果我——如果她不在我身边，我也可以让她在我身边。我越长大，就越希望自己更像她。我希望我的模仿能够融入——我长大后就变成了她（笑）。

施皮格尔：你真的希望这样吗？

玛利亚：嗯。我可以完全变成玛里琳·班福德，因为她是一个非常可爱的人，你知道吗？她总是精神焕发。就像有一次，她说：“噢，亲爱的，我们准备去——我们在土耳其，我本想打电话给你，因为隔壁的酒店着火了，你爸把事故现场的视频放到网上（译者注：Vine是微软公司开发的可拍摄、分享短视频的应用）。今晚我们要在市广场吃饭，所有人都出去了……”

施皮格尔：而玛里琳·班福德也以自己的方式从女儿对她的印象中有了意想不到的收获。

玛里琳：我想许多在我这个年龄——快到70岁的妇女，你懂的，都会感觉被忽视了。因此，当你的女儿用那么美妙而有天赋的方式模仿你，就会让你在某种程度上得到了永生。这在我们这个年纪是一件美好的事。