伦敦市长设计顾问眼中的城市设计

[被采访者] 彼得·毕舍普 / [Interviewee] Peter Bishop

[采访时间] 2019年6月13日 / [Date] June 13, 2019

[采访地点] 英国伦敦大学学院，巴特莱特建筑学院 / [Place] University College London, UK

[记录整理] 陈冉 / [Interviewer] CHEN Ran

[英文翻译] 陈冉 / [Translator] CHEN Ran

第一部分 城市设计实践与研究

Q1 您主导了很多伦敦著名的城市更新项目，请问您最喜欢的项目是哪一个？

我（图1）不得不说是国王十字区域城市复兴项目。我在此项目中工作了6年，与各领域杰出的团队共同推进项目，同时也进行了很多激烈的谈判。我们创造了一个全球城市更新范例，吸引各界人士来此访问、参观、学习与生活。到目前为止，我还未发现此项目的设计疏漏，或许有些公共空间比实际需要的稍大了一些。

Q2 您在设计国王十字区域城市复兴项目中是否过遇到重大挑战？

我从来没有怀疑过团队会创造出一个好的项目。项目开发商拥有长期股权，每个规划师和设计师都给予了坚定的支持。每个人都希望这个项目不仅着眼于当下，而且在10年、30年、50年、100年后都有其价值和意义。然而在整个过程中，我们的确遇到诸多挑战，最大的挑战是如何建立与场地的关联。虽然欧洲最发达的区域之一—卢姆斯伯里（Bloomsbury）就在不远处，但国王十字车站附近区域本身是一个贫困的旧工业区。

为了建立与场地的关联，我们将项目开展的起始点放在与当地居民息息相关的一系列问题上：①这个城市的更新需要会对当地居民的生活产生怎样的影响?②我们如何避免它成为一个被发达区域包裹的贫困区域?③我们如何避免它成为一个让当地居民感到不舒服的区域？

还有一个有趣的挑战是关于协调各方利益的。这个项目涉及诸多政府机构和利益集团，很多人都有不同的观点和主张，他们都希望发出自己的声音。所以，与各个利益相关者谈判并达到和谐是此项目第二个巨大的挑战。

Q3 您能简单谈一下国王十字复兴项目的城市设计过程吗？

在英国，常规的过程是土地所有者与开发商合作，协商决定如何将回报最大化。初步设计后提交规划审核。规划部门提出修改意见，开发商与设计方再进行修改，再次提交当地规划部门。然而，国王十字区域复兴项目（图2—图5）的城市设计过程是与众不同的。因为从最初阶段，规划师、开发商、土地所有者和政府官员就坐在一起共同讨论，提出一系列的问题。

我们最初提出的问题包括：我们将为城市创造一块新的区域，那么一块好的区域是什么样的？它需要包含什么功能？会使当地居民的生活产生怎样的改变？如何使它成为具有社会包容性的区域，做到兼收并蓄？

然后我们走访了城市的各个角落，找出具有参考价值的区域，进而筛选出可以进行进一步分析的区域。之后，我们思考这些区域的尺度（scale）、密度、功能的混合与城市建筑形态，进而获得了一系列符合本项目宗旨的城市设计原则。当我们确立这些原则后，就可以与当地居民开展商议。我们问当地居民：“你们认为这些原则可以帮助我们设计好一个区域吗？”如果他们不清楚，我们继续说：“这周六咱们一起到处走一走好吗？去金丝雀码头，去马里波恩（Marylebone），一起看看这些区域哪里好，哪里不好。”

在真正落笔进行设计之前，我们经历了以上一系列高强度的讨论、调研、总结与深入民众的研究。最后的设计图稿充分展现了我们的愿景。我们的愿景并不是创造一个空中楼阁，而是深深扎根于居民实际需要的落地空间。我认为城市设计并不是在城市上画图案，也不是去定义人们的生活模式。我对城市在几千米的高空看起来是什么样的并不感兴趣，这并不重要。我看重的是人的体验。人行走在其中，坐在这里，生活在此处的感受。设计是否符合人的尺度，人在其中会感到舒适吗？这些是我们需要关心的事情。

图1 / Figure 1毕舍普教授在其办公室接受专访Professor Peter Bishop interviewed in his of fi ce

Q4 您如何为当地居民提供更好的生活经历？

让当地居民自己定义生活。我认为城市改造并不是由设计师全权决定居民应该如何去生活，反之，当地居民应当在设计中扮演相当重要的角色。作为城市设计师，我们需要与居民展开讨论，理解他们的真实处境与实际需要，进而思考，如何提高他们的生活品质？如何不仅为现在，也为将来创造一个可以扩展他们生活宽度的场所，使他们获得更丰富的生活体验？我们的设计将如何为他们的孩子创造更好的生活与更多的机会？城市设计蓝图是很吸引人，但这其实是城市设计过程中相对简单的一环。充分了解区域所处的社会经济与环境的语境，则是很多当今城市设计师忽视的事情。

Q5 您出版了著作《临时的城市》，讨论由小着手的临时、非固定性设计可以极大地丰富城市生活。您能谈一谈关于临时城市主义的研究吗？

我从担任伦敦政府的“设计伦敦” (Design for London)总监时开始关注“临时城市”这一概念。伦敦是个无法被设计的城市，它不喜欢被规划。因为在英国，土地大多是个人所有而不是国有资本所有，政府的力量也有意维持在偏弱的状态。所以，坐在办公室里为整个伦敦画新蓝图这种自上而下的传统设计模式是不现实的。于是，我们从大设想出发，由小设计作为切入点，寻找能够有效与居民和土地所有者讨论的方式，获得大家的认可与支持，进而一起推动设计成为现实。

比如，其中一个大设想是关于东伦敦的。伦敦东部地区是伦敦较为落后的区域，发展水平远不及西伦敦。这里原以制造业和港口运输业为主，因产业没落而萧条，带来一系列民生与社会问题。在东伦敦更新计划中，我们提出的其中一个设想是建立“绿带”（green belt）。“绿带”将会为东伦敦建立充满活力的自然景观框架，改善生态环境，并为市民提供更多休闲游憩的公共空间。如果这个设想得以实施，将极大提高此地住宅的自然环境语境。以此概念为主导，我们首先确认拥有什么资源：东伦敦有大量的小块闲置土地。于是我们测量、记录这些土地，并思考如何进行极小的改动把这些地块连接在一起。下一步，我们为每一个地块做出了景观更新方案，并完善管理它们。这些小小的地块连接在一起形成了“绿带”。最后，我们完善整体城市设计方案，把“绿带”与东伦敦的每个小范围区域中心、交通站点、河道、公园、居民区等地点进行对接，形成一个网络式的开放空间系统。

在设计过程中，我们从来不会说“让我们重新规划这里”，而是首先把设计人员放到该区域中，与当地市民对话，充分了解居民如何在这里生活。我们尊重现有的事与物，这不光包括古建筑，更是包括地方特色的文化、城市回忆与日常生活风貌等动态城市遗产。这些点点滴滴虽然不会在任何一本著名旅游书上出现，却组成了这座城市的肌理。我们的设计原则很简单：寻找场地的缺失，确立改进的方向，在有限的条件下寻找最佳方案。

我们发现在与当地居民沟通时，要以更贴近生活的方式交流。如果提问抽象的问题，譬如“你对20年后的这个区域有什么设想？”他们常常不知道如何回答。如果我们问“社区如何变化会使你的生活变得更好，能列举五项吗？”他们会说“哦，好的，我能告诉你十项”。我们同时发现，有些人会说：“我家附近有棵树死了，政府能帮忙重新栽一棵吗？”我们会回答：“好的，我们这周六一起来栽树怎么样？”于是我们一起去买树，挖坑然后把树放进去，就这么干脆利落。而这简单的行动让市民感受到被赋予了力量。他们感到：政府来到我门前跟我探讨，我对城市的建议是有用的。

这个过程使临时城市主义成为一个可以让改变快速发生的机制，以“润物细无声”的方式更新城市。同时，这个过程可以提高市民对所处环境的意识，改变他们观察城市的方式。附加效果是，这个过程真的很有趣。在我的眼中，城市包含丰富的体验。所以，临时城市主义可以指一个报亭、一个社区小剧场，也可以是街头演奏音乐的人，因为这一切小小的事与物都让我们的城市变得更加多姿多彩。我不想生活在一座所有事物都被精确摆放的城市。我希望城市能稍微有一点弹性，有一点松散，给生活在其中的人们一些作出个人贡献的机会与空间。

图2 / Figure 2国王十字总图 / King’s Crossing Masterplan

Q6 您目前正在进行哪些研究项目？

我目前在关注几个研究主题。一个主题是关于住房供应。住房缺乏是英国目前面临的一个核心焦点问题。很多人在讨论如何建造足够的住房，而我的关注点是如何建立好的社区。我感兴趣的问题包括：①建筑形态与成功社区之间有着怎样的关系？②对于成功的社区，在兴建住房之外我们还需要布局哪些其他元素？③建设社区的步骤是怎样的？④如何让社区获得自主权，建立自己的社会网络体系，并迅速成长为成熟社区？

第二项研究是我与北京建筑设计院的合作项目。我们对伦敦与北京两座城市进行比较研究，我们尤其关注对信息收集与应用的不同方式。另外，我将为今年九月举办的首尔双年展设计伦敦展厅。与此同时，我的事务所承接很多城市设计项目。

图3 / Figure 3国王十字区域旁的办公楼 / Of fi ce Building in King’s Crossing

Q7 能谈一下您最近的城市设计项目吗？

我最近刚完成柏京（Barking）地区的整体设计方案。柏京地处东伦敦边缘，作为一个较为落后的区域，城市更新的浪潮刚刚来袭。这里有条古老的河流叫做罗丁河（Roding），河畔有一座废弃的小码头。河流和柏京区域中心之间是一座美丽的公园，公园里有一座历史悠久的修道院。我首先制定了连接区域中心与罗丁河的设计策略，随后在整体设计方案中对公园进行了更新并对河畔空间进行了激活。这是一个很令人着迷的区域，当地居民来自不同的种族，并具有很强的创业精神。同时，这里有着丰富的文化历史资源，这也是我试图在整体设计方案中呈现的。

第二部分 中英城市设计洞悉与展望

Q8 在中国，城市设计师和城市规划师的区别还不明确。您同时是城市设计师和城市规划师，请问在英国，城市设计师的角色是什么？

我认为城市设计师和城市规划师的角色是相似的。但是城市规划中太技术性的层面并不吸引我。我感兴趣的是如何提出概念，帮助城市变得更好，如何拿出最好的策略，以及如何把策略在纸上呈现出来。

Q9 集约开发是伦敦一项重要空间发展策略，旨在开发城市中的弃置空间，为创造更紧凑的中心城区和缓解对周边区域的压力。您从城市设计角度怎样看待这一策略呢？

集约开发在原则上是正确的。这个策略起源于1999年由罗杰斯领衔并发表了以“城市复兴” （Urban Renaissance）为目标的“英国城市工作组”白皮书《走向城市复兴》。这是一份相当重要和意义深远的报告。这份文件研究了对英国城市有借鉴意义的大量欧洲城市，而并没有包括北美的城市。它确立了我们现在认为理所应当的城市基准，比如:紧凑的城市优于分散的城市；紧凑的城市更利于可持续发展；公共空间是有益的；城市中的公众领域需要加强；空间综合功能区划值得提倡；合适的建筑密度是重要的；城市中最主要的交通方式应该是公共交通、步行和自行车出行；城市建筑需要有优秀的设计等。

这些准则在现在看来也许平淡无奇，但在20世纪90年代并非如此。那时的英国仍然在兴建大量的商场和位于城市边缘外的购物中心。从20世纪初期以后几乎没有兴建新的公共空间。那时的英国依然依赖着汽车出行，城市中大力兴建公路，人们认为汽车是城市交通中最重要的交通工具。为强化市场机制，自从1986年大伦敦的议会被撤销开始，大伦敦没有自己的市长也没有一个统一的法定规划文件对城市发展进行协调。“英国城市工作组”是1997年在一届很有改革精神的工党政府委托下展开研究的。直到2000年，肯·利文斯通成为伦敦的第一位民选市长，采纳了这些先进的概念，并逐步创造实施条件。那时制定的发展议程也一直沿行到现在。

这些城市设计标准在本质上仍是正确的。但是我认为伦敦为集约开发策略所进行的规划并不够完善。在伦敦的规划中批准了很多摩天大楼和错误选址的建筑，迫使现在伦敦的建筑密度在英国语境下已趋于不可持续发展的水平。所以，我认为近十年来伦敦的规划有其失败性，因为它并没有把坚实的城市原则严格地付诸于应用。

图4 / Figure 4国王十字区域上的广场 / Square of King’s Crossing

Q10 您对50年后的伦敦有何展望？

伦敦将会与现在差不多。当今有很多关于智慧城市的讨论。我认为世界上最智慧的城市之一是阿姆斯特丹。你可以用行走与骑自行车的方式体验城市。其实，伦敦也算是一个智慧城市。我认为，智能城市的核心是自动驾驶车辆这一观点完全是无稽之谈。

智慧城市这一概念可以追溯到“英国城市工作组”。一个智慧的城市是紧凑的，是强化功能混合的，是以人为本的。你可以选择走路，也可以选择骑行。这才是智慧城市的几大核心要素。我认为伦敦会继续这一策略，这将有助于伦敦成为一个非常激动人心，舒适并富有刺激的地方，吸引世界上的每个人都希望来此居住生活。最有才华的人将会被吸引到伦敦，在这里享受精彩绝伦的生活方式。这些是伦敦需要保持和继续的。伦敦已经有绝大多数必备条件，它需要在此道路上继续发展。

Q11 您认为未来伦敦的城市发展将会面临怎样的挑战？

有很大的挑战。其中最大的一个挑战是解决与英格兰东南部和中部地区的协同发展关系。其中包括认识到高速铁路能为区域间发展起到的作用和为计划新增住宅找到适合的位置。这些全部是区域间的问题，而并不包含在伦敦城市区域边界内。这是伦敦面临的最大挑战。但由于伦敦的行政职能边界不分明，英国目前并没有地区范围规划机制去促使这个讨论进行展开。

Q12 您认为未来中国的城市发展会面临怎样的的挑战？

我认为中国在迎头赶上。我与北京设计院有不少合作，他们做的事情是非常有趣的，也提出了正确的研究问题。与两三年前相比，我通过去年的北京之行看到北京有着显著的进步。北京的空气质量变好了，有更多人骑自行车，街道生活也变得更加丰富。我认为北京正在沿着一条正确的道路发展。目前很关键的一点是土地利用与交通的关系，另一点是发展空间综合功能区划，而不是沿袭传统的单一功能区划。在这两点上，伦敦已经取得了长足发展。

图5 / Figure 5国王十字区域的车站 / Station of King’s Crossing

我们并没有完全禁止伦敦市中心的汽车使用，但通过制定相关规则使开车变得昂贵。人们可以选择开车来上班，但这一天下来会花掉600～700元人民币的交通拥挤附加费和停车费。所以人们选择骑自行车，这将节约一半的时间，并且没有任何费用。这意味着伦敦街道提供的体验变得更美好，空气质量也变得更好。现在伦敦街道上的空气质量令人感到愉悦。当你改善了城市的条件，人们会更多地选择步行和骑自行车，他们将更少地选择汽车出行。如果我们选择不改善城市的条件，人们的选择会截然相反。

重视空间综合功能区划也是非常重要的一点。英国在20世纪60年代废弃了传统的单一功能区划。伦敦得以良好运行的其中一点原因是它拥有令人难以置信的功能混合性。所以，不同功能与活动的协同是至关重要的。这意味着人们可以随时会面，随时交流沟通。北京、上海和广州的部分区域也有这样的特质。但我认为中国城市面临的一个很大挑战是：他们是否做好准备欣然接受空间综合功能区划？比如，伦敦大学学院没有校园，地处城市中心。这意味着我可以在五分钟步行范围内到达其他人的办公室、工作室、政府、咖啡店和商店。这对生产知识的效益起到令人难以置信的有效作用。

另外，中国同时进行城市更新和城市扩张。所以，中国城市还面临的一个挑战是如何慢下来。中国在建设、开发和建造领域是非常令人钦佩的，但是你们做得太快了，这使设计质量受到了折损。对于很多项目，如果你建造的项目预期矗立100年而不是20年，那么一年的设计期限并不算什么。我认为，具有成熟度的建设对于设计和规划过程事关重要。

第三部分：城市设计教育

Q13 您认为一个年轻的城市设计师需要具备什么技能？

他们将具备多元化技能。我认为一个杰出的城市设计师需要具备以下3点，这也是好的城市设计教育需要包含的。

第一点是城市设计技能。你必须能够同时考虑街角、街道、社区、城市、地区等不同体量。同时，你需要能够同时在不同尺度中不断进出思考。

第二点是城市设计并不是一门单一学科，它是很多学科的交叉点。所以你需要自如地理解相关领域，比如建筑、城市规划、生态学、考古学、能源、社会学和人类学等。你需要保持充足的好奇心，不断探索，并不断与不同领域的人交流。你是把所有事物连结在一起的关键一环。

第三点是城市设计的客户通常是不同群体而非单一个体。你的客户是社区，你的所有付出都会对其产生影响。所以，你做的任何事并非中立，也都有其政治指向。当你在一个居民区做了任何改动，你的天平已经偏向了一方。我总试图教育我的学生：不要否认城市设计是一项从根本上改变居民生活平衡的政治活动。你肩负着责任。

Q14 您认为如何使城市设计教育变得更好？

城市设计不是绘画作品。一幅绘画作品不能成为评价设计的标准。好的设计有完整的内容，扎根于现实，以人为本。

Part 1: Urban Design Practice and Research

Q1 You have led some of the most infl uential and successful urban regener-ation projects in the most sophisticated sites in London. What is your favourite project?

I have to say King’s Cross Development. I have been working on it for six years. It was a hard negotiation with some brilliant people. I think among the various teams involved, we produced a global exemplar. It’s been visited from all over the place. I think actually it hasn’t yet produced anything which I look at and think, oh, we have got that wrong. Maybe some of the public spaces are bigger than what they should be.

Q2 Were there any signi fi cant challenges for King’s Cross Development?

Huge challenges. I don’t think we ever doubted that we were going to produce a good scheme.The developers and masterplanners were committed to it. And the developers had a long term stake. Everyone wanted it to be good not just for now, but in 10, 30, 50 and 100 years time. The toughest challenge was to make it relevant to the local area. King’s Cross sits just off Euston Road and next to the Bloomsbury which is one of the wealthiest districts in Europe. However, the area around the site is impoverished.

Our starting point was from a set of questions about local people: ①Why would this development make any difference to the lives of the people around it? ② How can we avoid it becoming a rich enclave in a poor area? ③ How do we avoid it to becoming a place that the local people don’t feel comfortable to go into?

There was also a fascinating challenge was getting across the political obstacle course. There are so many interests groups. So many people have views and opinions. They all felt that they had a voice. So negotiating with all the stakeholders and getting political concent was the second huge challenge.

Q3 Can you briefly talk about the process of urban design for King’s Cross?The normal process is the land owner forms a partnership with the developer and then decide how they can maximise their return. Then the planning process is to say, well that’s too big or that doesn’t work. You then take bits off. It’s not a very satisfactory process. King’s Cross was unusual. Because we started with a blank piece of paper. The planners, the developers, the landowners and the politicians started off by asking a set of questions.

The first set of questions we asked are: We are going to create a new piece of the city, what does a good piece of city looks like? How does it function? How does it make a difference to the lives of people living next door? How does it feel inclusive? Secondly we said: let’s go and observe bits of the city, and decide what kind of cities we think are good. Let’s analyse them.Thirdly we thought about the scale, the density,the mix and the urban form. Later, we arrived with a set of principles and roles out of that.Once we got that, we can agree with a wider group of people in the community. We asked“does this feel right? Do you think this will make a good place?” If they didn’t know, we then said, “let’s all go to the Canary Wharf on a Saturday. Let’s all go to Marylebone. Let’s walk around together and say what is good and what is bad about this place.”

It was an incredibly intense process before we put pen to paper, which is also the key thing. The drawings were informed by a vision of what we wanted to achieve. That’s what I think is embedded in reality. I have absolutely no time for urban designers who believe it’s about drawing patterns on a city or patterns on people’s lives. I really don’t care what a piece of city looks like from ten thousands feet in the air. It’s irrelevant.The interests are the experience of being there,sitting there, walking around it. How it feels. Is it of human scale? Do I feel comfortable? That’s the level that you should be working at.

Q4 How you provide interesting lives for local people?

Let them define their interesting lives. That’s important. It’s not about deciding what you think is good for people but having a debate with people, and understanding what their conditions are. What can make improvements? And how you create a place where they can expand their lives, not just now but into the future? How can we create the conditions where their children might have a better life and better opportunities?The actual physical drawing of urban design is fascinating, but that is the easy part. Getting the social economic and environmental context right, that’s what a lot of urban designers completely ignore.

Q5 You have published an influential book called Temporary Urbanism which is about making small interventions to make life better in a dense city. Can you talk about this research?

I’ve been interested in Temporary Urbanism because when I was appointed as the director of Design for London, it’s pretty obvious you couldn’t design for London. London doesn’t like being planned. It’s driven by private investments not by public investments. The government is weak, deliberately weak in UK cities. And actually, we think that’s quite good because it allows the individual to drive the economy. There is no point sitting in an office making great plans for London. Instead, our approach was to think about the big ideas and then think of ways which we can then discuss with people, get the momentum and start to make things happening.

For example, one of the big ideas was about East London. London is going to grow eastwards, if we could create a green grid for East London,that would create a vibrant landscape framework for new growth, in terms of leisure, topography and ecology. If that happened, it would mean the housing that goes into the new growth is sitting in a far better environmental context. Having this big idea in mind, fi rst we looked at what we had. We were aware that we had a lot of lands.Cities do have a lot of little bits of spare land. So we mapped them, recorded them and considered how we could make tiny interventions to link them up and join them. Thirdly, for each piece of land, we had a little proposal to re-landscape and manage it properly. That created a green grid.Finally, we developed the proposals into ways that integrated them with town centres.

We wouldn’t go and say, let’s replan this. We were saying, first of all, let’s move out our design team into the area, talk to local people and understand from them how the neighbourhood works. We valued what’s there. We were not just valuing the old historic buildings, but also the culture, the memories, the everyday urbanism. The stuff which is not going to appear in any great tourist book but it’s the fi ne grid of fabric of the area. The principle is simple. It’s about define what is missing, then work within the possible.

We found that actually, if you engage with local people, and say, “what’s your big idea for this place in 20 years time?” They would look at you blankly. If you say, “what would you like to do?Can you name fi ve things that would make your lives better?” They would reply, “oh, yeah, I have got ten.” And we also then found out, some people said, “well, they should just replace the tree on my corner.” And we then responsed, “why don’t we do it on a Saturday?” We then went to buy a tree, digged a hole and put the tree in.What it meant was that people felt empowered.They felt “here is the government coming to talk to us”—there is a dialogue and they have power.This process makes Temporary Urbanism a mechanism by which you can make things happen, change little bits of the city and change the way people look at their city. It makes people have a bit more awareness of the environment they are living in. The plus effect is its fun.

Cities should be about very rich experience.Therefore, Temporary Urbanism can be a kiosk,a little theatre, or someone playing music on the street. That makes the city richer. I don’t want to live in a city where everything is planned and allocated. I like the idea that a city is slightly loose. And people have the space to make their individual contributions.

Q6 How about your current research project? What are you looking at at the moment?

I’m looking at a number of research projects.One is about housing delivery, which is the problem of this country- not building enough housing. A lot of people have been questioning of how we build more housing. But what I’m interested in how we build good communities.I’m very interested in the relationship between built form and what underpins a successful community. What do we need to put in other than housing and how you phase it? The fi nal and the most interesting thing is: how do you get that community to take ownership and grow its social networks and mature quickly? That’s one piece of research.

I’m also doing another research project with Beijing Institute of Architectural Design comparing London and Beijing. Particularly looking at our completely different ways we collect and use data. And I’m also doing the London Pavillion for Seoul Biennale in September and writing a couple of books. At the same time, I have my own practice, and we have got a lot of masterplanning work.

Q7 Can you talk about one of your recent projects?

I have just finished a set of masterplans for Barking in east London. Barking is a really interesting place right at the east end of London.The wave of regeneration is just beginning to hit it. It’s an impoverished area. They got some good people there, and they asked me first of all to look at a design strategy that connects the town centre with this old river called Rod-ing. There is a little port which is now disused.Between the river and the town centre is a very beautiful park with an ancient abbey in. So I did a masterplan to re-con fi gure the park, and made the connection from the town centre to the river which reactivated the river. It’s a great project and a fascinating area. A large number of local people are from ethnic backgrounds. It's also a very entrepreneurial place. The history is mainly cultural history which we are trying to capture in this project.

Part 2: Urban Design Insights for the UK and China

Q8 You are both an urban designer and an urban planner. In China, the role of an urban designer is still not very clear.In the context of the UK, What is the role of an urban designer in the UK?

I think Urban Planning and Urban Design is the same thing, but there is a very large part of urban planning which is very technical. That is not particularly interested to me. I’m interested in how you come up with ideas to help places to be better, how you come up with strategies, and how you can draw them.

Q9 Regarding the process of intensification in central London. What were the main approaches from the urban design point of view?

The principle is right. The principle stems from the Urban Task Force report, which was chaired and published by Richard Rogers in 1999Towards an Urban Renaissance. It’s an incredibly important document. What that document did was to look at the European cities instead of American cities. It established what we take for granted now—that a compact city is better than a dispersed city. A compact city is more sustainable. Public space is good. Public realm is important. Mixed-use is very good. Density is important. Public transport, walking and cycling are the ways in which you should be getting around the city. You should have good and beautifully designed buildings.

That is so obvious now but was not in 1990s. We were building shopping malls and out of town retail and there had been no new public space since the early 20th century. We were still thinking that cars were the way to get around the city and we were still building roads. The Urban Task Force report was commissioned by the Labour Government in 1997, which was a pretty radical government. It was launched through Ken Livingstone - the first Mayor of London. London pioneered these ideas. It created the conditions and set the agenda that we are still following today.

Those principles are still fundamentally right.Haven’t said that, I don’t think London is planning its intensi fi cation well enough. It’s allowing too many bad tall buildings or poorly sited buildings. We are now pushing densities to levels are not sustainable in a UK context. So I think there is a failure in planning in the last 10 years in London to really take a very solid urban principles and rigorously apply them.

Q10 What’s your vision of London in 50 years?

London will stay more or less the same. There is a lot of talks about smart cities. I think one of the smartest cities on the planet is Amsterdam.You can walk, you can cycle around it. Actually,London is quite a smart city too. A smart city is constructed around autonomous vehicles is completely nonsense.

The idea of smart city goes back to the Urban Task Force. A smart city is compact, it’s centred around the individual. You can walk. You can cycle. It’s intensively mixed-use. That’s a smart city. I think London will continue with this strategy which will make it a very exciting, comfortable and stimulating place that everyone in the world would want to come and live in. The most talented people will be drawn to London and have a brilliant lifestyle here. That’s what London will have to maintain. It has got most of these ingredients, and it has to keep on developing.

Q11 Is there any challenges for the future of urban design in London?

Huge challenges. One of the biggest challenges will be working out the relationship to the southeast of England and the Midlands. Understanding what the high-speed rail networks could do.Working out what are the new houses going to be. All of these are regional issues, that are not going to be contained in London’s metropolitan boundaries. That’s London’s biggest challenge because we do not have any regional planning mechanisms for that debate to happen. The boundary for London is arbitrary.

Q12 What do you think are the challenges for the future of urban design in Chinese cities?

I think China is catching up. I do some work with the Beijing Institute of Architectural Design. I think what they are doing is interesting. They are asking the right questions. And comparing my last visit to Beijing last year and the one 2 or 3 years earlier, I thought Beijing was considerably better. The air quality was better, more people were cycling, and there was more street life. I believe Beijing is absolutely going in the right direction. The critical thing is the relationship between land-use and transport.

I guess that is the next big move for Chinese cities. The second thing is to develop mixed-use to single-use zoning. Those are the two key things which London has made a lot of progress on.

We haven’t stopped using cars in central London, but we made it very expensive. I could drive my car to work today. It would cost me 600-700 RMB a day for the congestion charge and parking. Therefore, I got on my bike. It takes me half the time, and it costs me nothing.It means the experience of being on the street in London and the improvement of the air quality.The air quality experiences on the street is a lot more pleasant. If you create good urban conditions, people walk and cycle, they use their car less. If you don’t, it goes the other way.

Then the second thing is the importance of mixed-use zoning. We abandoned the idea of big single-use zoning around the 1960s. London works because it’s incredibly mixed. Therefore, the synergy of different uses and activities becomes really important. It means people are constantly meeting and exchanging ideas. That is the mix-use nature of central London, which is incredibly important. Part of Beijing, part of Shanghai, and part of Guangzhou have that. But I think the very big challenge for Chinese cities is whether they are prepared to embrace mix-use zones. For example, UCL doesn’t have a campus. It sits right in the middle of the city which means I can have access to people’s offices,to practice, to government, to cafes, to shops,everything within 5 minutes of walk. That’s incredibly effective in generating the knowledge economy.

China is now moving into a phase of urban renewal at the same time of urban expansion.Therefore, another challenge to me about China is China has to slow down. China is incredibly impressive at building, developing and constructing, but you are doing it too quickly.It compromises the design quality. For many projects, design for a year is nothing if what you build now will last 100 years rather than 20 years as a result. I think building in maturity to the design and planning process is important.

Part 3: Urban Design Education

Q13 What do you think a young urban designer should equipt?

They are going to be multi skilled. There are three things that distinguish an urban designer for me which I think have to embedded in good urban design education.

First of all is the skill. You have to be able to think simultaneously about the street corner,street block, the neighbourhood, the city, the region, etc. And you have to be able to constantly move in and out the scale at the same time.

The second thing is, there is no such thing as an urban design discipline. It is the intersect of many disciplines. Therefore, you have to be comfortable understanding all the related fi elds including architecture, planning, ecology,archaeology, energy, sociology and anthropology, etc. You have to be curious enough to know you are continually exploring and engaging with people with different specialities. You are the point that pulls everything together.

The third thing is because you are dealing with groups of people, you don’t have a single client.Your client is the community which all your work is going to affect. Therefore, everything you do has a political implication. It’s not neutral. If you make an intervention in a neighbourhood, you tip the scale one way or another. One thing I always try to teach my students is: Never tell me what you will be doing will not have political implications. Don’t deny it’s a political activity that fundamentally shifts the balance in people’s lives. You have the responsibility.

Q14 How do you want to make urban design education better?

Urban design is not a drawn product. A drawn product is not how you judge a design. Good design has the integrity in content, roots in the reality and takes great care of people.