访谈

日文撰稿：松田亚希子

© Hiroshi Endo

田中 互 （左）

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城市项目总部 城市设计部门 总裁

全球运营总部 海外开发项目管理部门·策划公关部门总裁

龟井 忠夫 （中）

法人代表·社长

陆 钟骁 （右）

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设计总部 总建筑师，全球运营总部中国区 总裁

不易流行

陆：“日建设计自成立至今已有119年。历史如此悠久的建筑设计事务所放眼全球也实属罕见，那么日建设计能够长久立足的原因是什么呢？”

龟井：“始终顺应时代要求这点应该算是原因之一吧。从战后重建到经济高速增长期日建的业务主要集中在钢铁厂方面，之后开始涉足写字楼和文化设施，泡沫经济崩溃后开始进行大型开发项目。”

陆：“可以说我们的前辈具有洞察时代先机的能力。”

龟井：“现在说来就是具备创新精神吧。比如1966年竣工的巴乐思赛德大厦（Palaceside Building）采用了与地铁站呈一体的设计，它不仅是写字楼，还将一、二层做成了购物广场，由于这些设计理念在当年可谓前无古人，这也使它成为了综合型建筑的先驱。如今看到这栋大厦还会感慨设计不应止于建筑表面，还应设计到它的内在框架。”

田中：“1974年落成的新宿住友大厦，当年建设时政府曾要求尽力确保更多的天空，于是保留了很多空无一物的空地。但之后随着或在空地中栽种绿植、或做成营造繁华的公共空间等呼声的陆续出现，需求逐渐产生了变化，现在架设大屋顶进行翻新等快速满足时代变化和需求的空间建设和改造也正是日建设计的技之所长。”

陆：“经历了泡沫经济和泡沫崩溃等大起大落的我们，是否能为世界提供一种可以承受时代和经济活动变化的建筑建造方法呢？”

龟井：“在时代的洪流中，有些建筑消逝不见，也有些建筑倍受爱戴留存至今。巴乐思赛德大厦与新宿住友大厦顺应时代要求进行了改造，时至今日不仅没有过时都还在正常使用。不易流行，换句话说就是永不改变的本质和与时俱进不断变化这两点同样重要。正因为如今变化的不断加速，所以我们希望在设计时能够牢牢把握住这两点。”

全球价值

陆：“日建设计作为世界顶级建筑设计公司，应该如何在全球市场中占据一席之地呢？”

龟井：“比起规模，我们更希望用内在一决胜负。日建设计不仅有建筑师，还拥有工程师和规划师等多样化的人材，综合实力是我们的强项。此外，我们还具备日本企业特有的细致周到。除了在硬件方面的努力外，如何增加附加服务应该是今后的关键所在。”

田中：“在日本狭小的土地上盖楼建城的我们，非常擅于将复杂的东西合理布局在一起，也就是说擅于‘紧凑整合’”。我想这一点恐怕是欧美系设计事务所很难模仿的。”

陆：“日本是世界上第一个进入老龄化社会的国家，这点同样非常重要。老龄化社会是世界的未来趋势，能够站在老龄化的最前沿提出城市建设解决方案是我们的一大优势。”

打破“框架”的束缚

陆：“IoT（物联网）与AI（人工智能）的发展浪潮也波及到设计行业。日建对此有采取什么策略吗？”

龟井：“日建设计在公司内部已经基本实现了技术完备。然而，要想在日趋复杂、多元化的社会中做出创新，与外界乃至其他行业的合作将成为关键。”

陆：“日建已经与大型通信公司软银开展合作，正联手进行实证实验以打造利用大数据的下一代智能建筑。”

田中：“虽然建筑要建在当地，但设计和设计合作伙伴可以是来自其他行业的外国公司。我们的全球化征程必须更进一步。”陆：“通过与各种外界公司的合作，还可能会孵化出打破设计业务框架的新型业务。像AMEBA那样的开放式创新的时代即将来临。”

足迹遍布世界

陆：“日建设计今后将越来越频繁地亮相于世界舞台，那么有哪些作品可以展示日建的优势呢？”

多媒体技术能够将教师所要讲授的教学内容更加直观地展现在学生们的眼前，但是这种“方便”“直观”的背后也隐藏着一些弊端。正是因为多媒体技术的直观，使学生在学习过程中减少了对文章内容的想象，影响了学生想象力的培养。另外，在运用多媒体技术教学时，老师可以把应用他人的感悟直观地呈现到学生的面前，这种方法虽然能够强化学生的理解能力，但是也在一定程度上影响了学生的思考。

田中：“新加坡铁道走廊是在全长24km的原马来亚铁路遗址上作为公共空间进行重建的项目。我们提案在关注与周边社区和环境的联系的同时，打造出诸如可以运动的空间、可以散步的自然环境等许多富于变化的空间，再像串珠一样将这些空间连接起来。我们组建了包括城市规划、景观、建筑等专业在内的综合性专业团队，该团队充分发挥了日建设计的综合实力，我认为这也是我们最终赢得国际设计竞赛的一个因素。”

龟井：“建筑方面，我想说一下巴塞罗那足球俱乐部主场—诺坎普球场的大型改造项目。在赢得设计竞赛的规划案中，我们提案拆除过去的封闭围墙，将3层看台改造成开放式看台，使其成为向巴塞罗那及其市民开放的公共空间。在发挥20世纪50年代的建筑价值的同时进一步创造出新的价值，这种理念得到了肯定。”

陆：“拆除墙壁等结构、在广场上加盖大屋顶，东京站八重洲口的GranRoof也是类似风格。说到东京站，基于公共交通的城市开发—TOD的重要性也开始得到世界的认可，两位有什么要说的？”

田中：“日建设计在日本做过许多以车站为中心的城市开发项目。我们正是凭借这些丰富经验，在中国和世界各地积极推进TOD开发建设。”

龟井：“1997年与港未来站呈空间一体化的横浜皇后广场的开发，确实为港未来21地区带来了大量的人流。”

陆：“横浜皇后广场，一出了地铁站就直接进入了大厦里的购物中心。虽然是20年多年前的项目，现今已成为在中国推广TOD的重要启示。车站与城市无缝连接融为一体，并通过在其间设置商业设施等来营造繁华氛围。如此一来，人们在出行时主动选择绿色出行，从而有助于建设环境友好型的城市。”

建筑对环境的贡献

© NIKKEN SEKKEI

龟井：“1993年竣工的沙特阿拉伯伊斯兰开发银行总部大厦就是一个具有象征意义的项目。针对沙特严酷的气候条件，通过采用石质外墙遮挡灼热阳光和采用细长狭缝窗口引入所需最低限的光线以确保实现舒适性。在几乎完全没有环保建筑概念的当时年，可以说是一个划时代的项目。”

田中：“正在建设中的迪拜One Za'abeel，在两栋高层建筑间架起具有节能功效的高科技玻璃廊桥。工程设计一体化的提案正是日建设计的优势所在。”

陆：“同时，在日本国内，我们正在携手住友林业挑战建设高350m的木结构超高层建筑，即W350规划。”

龟井：“日本虽然约有2/3的国土面积被森林覆盖，但由于未能充分利用木材，导致森林逐渐荒废。木结构建筑不仅能传达木材的温暖与温柔，还有助于环保。”陆：“将来，我们希望可以向加拿大、俄罗斯等拥有大量森林资源的国家提供相关技术。”

关于EXPERIENCE、INTEGRATED的思考

陆：“最后还想请您谈谈日建设计新的企业发展旨

'EXPERIENCE、INTEGRATED'。”

龟井：“收集整合丰富的经验并将其反映到项目中自不必说，更重要的是要通过超出客户预期和具有优势的提案吸引并抓牢客户，与此同时还要让客户感到安心，建立长久的信赖关系。可以说，只有在做到这两点才算实现了'EXPERIENCE和INTEGRATED' 。”

田中：“大家在进行规划设计时，往往会抱着如何去打造人群集聚的场所，如何来丰富城市这样的思路。所以说公共空间与TOD的'EXPERIENCE和INTEGRATED' 是不输于其他的。”

陆：“在考虑到客户所在国家和地区未来的同时，充分利用日本这些年来积累的丰富经验。作为拥有悠久历史和丰富设计经验的日建设计，我们希望积极推进日建独有的全球化战略。”

龟井：“我们并不是要把日本的价值观强加于其他国家和地区，而是要根据各个国家和地区的特点，因地制宜地打造海外项目。”

陆：“如果能够结合当地的情况，进行适宜的提案，就可以从众多方案中脱颖而出。力求做到‘这是最优方案，只有日建设计能够实现’。”

龟井：“希望日建的 'EXPERIENCE、INTEGRATED' 精神，能够不断为解决世界性课题做出贡献。”

© Vincent Hecht

- More than creative

Lu: "Since its inception 119 years ago, Nikken Sekkei now has a long history rarely seen in the global architectural design industry. In your opinion, what's the factor that supports Nikken Sekkei to develop until today? "

Kamei: "I think one of the reasons is that Nikken Sekkei has always kept up with the times. From the post-war reconstruction to the rapid economic growth period, Nikken Sekkei is mainly engaged in business of iron and steel plants, followed by office buildings and cultural facilities.After the collapse of bubble economy, Nikken Sekkei started to carry out business in large development projects."

Lu: "This also proves our predecessors' strong ability of gaining insight into the times."

Kamei: "Now we can say they have a spirit of innovation. For example,the Palaceside Building completed in 1966 adopted the design integrated with the subway station, in which it was not only used as the office building, but set shopping plazas on F1 and F2. These design concepts used for the first time globally at that time made it a pioneer of comprehensive buildings. Every time I see this building, it would remind me that, in addition to the surface, architectural design shall also focus on the internal framework of the building. "

Tanaka: "When constructing the Shinjuku Sumitomo Building (completed in 1974), in order to meet the government's requirement for ensuring more sky space, we reserved many empty spaces. However, with the emergence of calls for planting green plants in the open space or creating prosperous public space in succession, demands have changed.Now, with a wealth of expertise in space construction and renovation such as making renovation through erecting big roofs, Nikken Sekkei can rapidly meet the changing demands of the times."

Lu: "As an architectural firm surviving the impact of bubble economy and bubble collapse, what's your suggestion on the construction method that can withstand the changes of the times and economic activities?"

Kamei: "In the stream of times, some buildings have disappeared while some have gained wide popularity and lasted until today.Due to renovation in line with the demands of the times, Palaceside Building and Shinjuku Sumitomo Building are still in normal use and popular today. More than creative means we should stick to our original mission and continuously adapt to the times. These two points are particularly important for design in the background of everaccelerating changes today. "

-Global value

Lu: "As the world's top tier architectural design firm, how can Nikken Sekkei maintain its presence in the global market?"

Kamei: "We hope to enhance our competitiveness through inherent development instead of scale expansion. Nikken Sekkei has strong comprehensive strength, evidenced by its diverse talent team of architects, engineers, planners, etc. Moreover, like other Japanese enterprises, we also provide careful and considerate services. In the future, we will focus on exploring how to add additional services while continuing our efforts in hardware."

Tanaka: "As a firm constructing buildings on Japan's small land area,we are adept at integrating complex things through rational layout,i.e, compactness and integration". I think this is one of our advantages surpassing the European and American design firms."

Lu: "It's noteworthy that Japan is the first country in the world to enter an aging society. As aging society is the world's future trend, we have a great advantage in proposing urban construction solutions at the forefront of aging."

- Breaking through the constraint of "framework"

Lu: "The tide of IoT and AI also influences the design industry. What's your response strategy for this? "

Kamei: "Nikken Sekkei has established complete technologies within the company. However, the key to making innovation in the increasingly complex and diverse society lies in cooperation with the outside world and other industries."

Lu: "Nikken Sekkei has cooperated with SoftBank, a large communications company and they are working together on empirical experiments to build the next-generation smart buildings with big data."Tanaka: "In the construction of local buildings, we can utilize the design of foreign companies from other industries or cooperated with them in design. This is also a step taken to advance our globalization progress."

Lu: "The cooperating with companies in other industries will also benefit the incubation of new-type business that breaks the design business framework. The era of open innovation like AMEBA is coming."

- Footprints across the world

Lu: "In the future, Nikken Sekkei will showcase itself to the whole world in a more frequent gesture. Which works can demonstrate your advantages?"

Tanaka: "The Singapore Rail Corridor is a redevelopment project of public space based on the site of the original 24km-long Melayu railway. While taking the connection with surrounding communities and environments into consideration, we also proposed to create diverse and changeful spaces such as sports space and natural walking environment, and connect these spaces together like a string of beads. The comprehensive professional team we established has integrated urban planning,landscape, architecture and other specialties, and fully exerted Nikken Sekkei's comprehensive strength. I think this is also a factor contributing to our winning in the international design competition."

Kamei: "In terms of buildings, I would like to mention the large-scale renovation project of the stadium of Futbol Club Barcelona - Camp Nou. In our winning scheme in the design competition, we proposed to dismantle the original closed walls and renovate the three-level spectators stand into open stand, so as to build it into Barcelona's public space for citizens. This concept has created a new value on the basis of exerting the value of buildings in the 1950s, and won recognition from judges."

Lu: "The GranRoof at Tokyo Chuou-ku Yaesu also refers to the style of dismantling walls and other structures and erecting big roofs in the square. Speaking of Tokyo Station, the transit-oriented development(TOD) is drawing more and more attention from the globe. How do you think about this?"

Tanaka: "Nikken Sekkei has participated in many station-centered urban development projects in Japan and accumulated rich experience in this regard. It is now actively promoting the TOD development and construction in China and around the world."

Kamei: "The development of Queen's Square Yokohama featuring spatial integration with Minatomirai Station in 1997 has brought a large number of people flows to Minato Mirai 21."

Lu: "At Queen's Square Yokohama, you can directly enter the shopping mall in the building after leaving the subway station. Although it's a project more than 20 years ago, it has provided important enlightenment for promoting TOD in China. The project seamlessly integrates the station and the city and sets commercial facilities to create a bustling atmosphere. By doing so, people will actively choose green transportation modes when going out, thus facilitating the construction of the environment-friendly city."

- Environmental benefits of the buildings

Lu: "Nikken Sekkei also participated in many challenging projects in the Middle East, where the social system and natural environment are quite different from Japan."

Kamei: "The headquarter building of Islamic Development Bank in Saudi Arabia (completed in 1993) is a representative project. To address challenges brought by harsh weather conditions in Saudi Arabia and ensure comfort, we adopted the stone walls to block the scorching sunshine and the windows with slender narrow seams to introduce the minimum light required. At the time almost without the concept of environmentally friendly buildings, it was an epoch-making initiative."

Tanaka: "One Za' abeel in Dubai under construction sets a high-tech glass bridge with energy-saving functions between two high-rise buildings.Our advantage lies in the proposal highlighting project and design integration."

Lu: "Moreover, we are working with Sumitomo Forestry to build a 350m super high-rise building with the wood structure, i.e, the W350 Plan,which is a challenge for both of us."

Kamei: "In Japan, two-thirds of land area is covered by forests. However,due to the failure in full use of wood, the forests are gradually being obsoleted. The wooden structures can not only convey the wood's warmth and gentleness, but also contribute to environmental protection."Lu: "In the future, we hope to provide relevant technologies to countries with abundant forest resources, such as Canada and Russia."

- Thought on EXPERIENCE and INTEGRATED

Lu: "At last, I would like to invite you to talk about your new corporate development purpose: 'EXPERIENCE and INTEGRATED'."

Kamei: "We all know that it's important to collect rich experience and reflect it into the project after integration. However, what's more important is to attract and maintain customers through developing proposals beyond expectation and with advantages. Besides, it's necessary to enhance our customers' sense of sense of security through establishing reliable relationships in the long term. Only by achieving the above two points, can the purpose of 'EXPERIENCE and INTEGRATED' be realized."

Tanaka: "When making plans and design, we tend to focus more on how to build a place gathering people and enriching the city. So the purpose of 'EXPERIENCE and INTEGRATED' highlighting both TOD and public space will help us win over rivals. "

Lu: "While taking the future of the countries and regions where our customers belong into account, we will also make full use of the rich experience we have accumulated in Japan over the years. Boasting a long development history and rich design experience, Nikken Sekkei is actively engaged in promoting our unique globalization strategy."

Kamei: "Instead of imposing Japanese values on other countries and regions, we would like to fully consider the characteristics of various countries and regions, and develop overseas projects based on actual conditions."

Lu: "The proposals suitable to local conditions will stand out from others.We aim to realize that 'Nikken Sekkei is your most ideal choice for providing the optimal proposal'."

Kamei: "It's hoped that Nikken Sekkei's 'EXPERIENCE and INTEGRATED'spirit will continuously contribute to solving the problems facing the whole world."

© Vincent Hecht