“一带一路”作用独特本刊专访葡萄牙经济与创新部原部长曼努埃尔·皮诺

◎ 文 《法人》全媒体记者 李立娟 《法人》实习生 贾润思

能源投资房地产和股票投资不同，需要有长期规划。 “一带一路”倡议在促进能源领域投资方面发挥着独特作用，具有非常重要的积极意义

葡萄牙长期以来一直被视为是可再生能源领域的领导者，葡萄牙原经济与创新部长曼努埃尔·皮诺（Manuel Pinho）曾于2005年至2009年担任欧洲能源委员会主席。他被公认为是葡萄牙清洁能源改革的世界级领袖，欧洲战略能源技术计划的推动者，一手打造了欧洲能源新纪元。

7月，皮诺教授在北京大学担任客座教授期间，就中国新能源的发展、“一带一路”倡议中的新能源改革的推进作用等议题，接受了《法人》记者的专访。

“我会花更多时间了解中国”

《法人》：据葡萄牙电网运营商 REN 称，葡萄牙2018年 3 月可再生能源的发电量超过了全国的电网负荷，实现了100% 清洁能源。对此您有何评价？

曼努埃尔 · 皮诺：葡萄牙由传统能源向清洁能源转变期间，我曾经担任能源部部长，但我决不认为我是一名政治家。因为我在国际组织、私营企业和学校机构都做过很多工作。清洁能源战略的实施主要包括拍卖大量水力和陆上风力发电许可，并承诺保持电价不变。太阳能光伏发电和海上风力发电因发电方式成本极高，过去并不是可选项。而现在，光伏发电和风力发电成本大幅下降，成本已经不是问题了。核能发电也不是合适的选择，因为葡萄牙面积狭小；核电成本高昂，且社会各界普遍对核电抱有畏惧心理。

曼努埃尔·皮诺Manuel Pinho

与此同时，政府当时还鼓励企业在国内生产产品，从而创造更多就业机会。我可能还没有资格来评价我自己，但是葡萄牙长期以来一直被视为是可再生能源领域的领导者，可再生能源是代表未来的能源。

I was a minister during the transition of my country to clean energies,however by no ways I see myself as a politician. I had many jobs in international organizations, the private sector and academics. The energy strategy consisted mostly on auctioning a large number of permits to produce power from hydro and onshore wind and the commitment to maintain the rules unchanged. Solar PV and offshore wind were not alternatives because they were very expensive which is not the case anymore given the spectacular decline in their costs. Nuclear was not an option either because the country is pretty small； costs are high； and societies do not feel comfortable with this technology. At the same time, manufacturers were encouraged to produce in the country, which created many jobs. I am not well quali fi ed to evaluate myself,however my country has been considered a leader in renewable energies for long.Renewable energies are the energy of the future.

《法人》：作为北京大学的客座教授，您来中国的主要研究领域是什么？

曼努埃尔 · 皮诺：能源目前涉及到经济、金融、监管、政治等问题，是一个非常令人兴奋的话题。而且我的课程内容充实，讲课活力满满，因此，自从2010年以来，我先后受邀到7所世界顶级大学教书。北京大学是一所世界级的大学，我有幸在工程系的一个项目中开展教学工作，这个项目吸引了很多来自中国和其他国家的学生。我喜欢教学，也正是因为教学，我不断旅行，足迹遍布四海。我的研究领域是关于中国与全球化，中国的碳排放情况以及中国将可再生能源纳入电力系统中面临的挑战。而且，鉴于贸易争端、二氧化碳排放量的上升以及大规模整合可再生能源带来的意想不到的挑战，这些都是这个话题令人着迷的地方。每年，我都会花更多的时间停留在中国，这样我才能更好地了解中国国情。

Since 2010 I have been invited to teach at 7 top universities around the world, energy is a very exciting topic with many dimensions from technology to economics and fi nance and including regulation and geopolitics. PKU is a world- class university. I am delighted with the opportunity to teach in a program that has attracted so many talented students from China and other countries. I love teaching which makes me travel constantly and my research is on China and globalization, China´s carbon emissions and the challenge of integrating renewable energies in power systems. I believe that they are exciting topics related to real world situations, given trade disputes, the rise in CO2 emissions and the unexpected challenges from integrating variable renewable energies in large scale. Every year I spend more time in China,this allows me to know your country better.

与中国合作极为重要

《法人》：您如何评判中国“一带一路”倡议在清洁能源改革方面所做的努力？

曼努埃尔 · 皮诺：“一带一路”是自马歇尔计划以来最重要的国际合作倡议。它不仅提升了中国在世界上的形象，也为许多国家创造了机会。在我看来，这对于抵消贸易保护主义带来的不利影响是非常重要的，此时此刻，“一带一路”的倡议显得尤为重要。“一带一路”使许多国家能源需求剧增，在生产、运输和流通等诸多领域，这些国家亟须开发新能源项目来保障能源供给。

因此，与中国开展相关合作极为重要。他们不仅能获得资金支持，还能学习先进的技术。中国已经在太阳能光伏、高压能源运输和电动汽车等方面处于世界领先地位。欧洲和中国的能源市场非常多样化，但是各国都有着共同目标，那就是发展清洁能源和避免过度依赖外部能源供给。“一带一路”倡议不仅能极大促进投资，而且有助于减少碳排放。因此我认为， “一带一路”倡议的实施在2018年全球碳排放并不乐观的情况下，这是首先需要考虑的任务。我们并没有足够的时间了。

The Belt and Road is undoubtedly the most important external cooperation initiative since the Marshall Plan. It has not only raised China´s profile in the world but also created opportunities for many countries. Its importance is greater than ever before to offset trends in protectionism, which are potentially very harmful,everybody may lose. . In many countries of B&R energy demand is growing fast and they need to develop new energy projects in many areas, all along from production, to transport and distribution. Cooperation with China will be very important to allow them bridging the financial gap and acquire technical expertize. In energy, China is already a leader in a few areas, for example solar PV, high- voltage energy transport and electric vehicles. Energy markets in Europe and China are very diverse, however countries share the common goal of developing clean energies and avoid excessive external dependence. The B&R initiative is a powerful tool and it has the capacity not only to promote investment, but also to contribute to the reduction of carbon emissions. This is a priority and the fi gures for world carbon emissions in 2018 are not good. We are running out of time.

《法人》：您如何评价“一带一路”沿线亚欧能源市场的特点？有的评论称，亚欧能源市场分散，基础设施老化，各国能源政策缺乏透明度，亚欧应实现“能源一体化”，创造一个更加一体化、相互关联和竞争的市场。您如何认为？

曼努埃尔 · 皮诺：你认为市场是分散的，这并没有错。如何通过基础设施投资使得市场（包括石油、天然气，电力运输和配送等领域）更加一体化，是我们应该优先考虑的问题。中国公司是这些领域的领导者。诚然，能源政策在许多国家缺乏透明度，因为能源还牵扯到政治问题。在任何一个国家，应对最终消费者支付的能源价格和缺乏主权的感觉（能源依赖）都是敏感的。

You are totally right in arguing that markets are fragmented, one of the priorities is to make them more integrated as a result of investment in infrastructure, all along from oil, natural gas and power transportation and distribution. Companies from China are leaders in these areas. It is true that energy policies lack transparency in many, if not in most countries, because energy has a strong political dimension. Anywhere in the world it is politically sensitive to deal with energy prices paid by final consumers and with the perception of lack of sovereignty, i.e. energy dependence.

能源投资需要有长期规划

《法人》：您认为世界清洁能源的发展面临哪些挑战？

曼努埃尔 · 皮诺：清洁能源在世界范围内进展良好，其减少碳排放和污染的能力已经得到证实，成本也急剧下降，且这一趋势会继续下去。当然，清洁能源的使用也带来了一些挑战。比如，它改变了我们对电力系统的运作方式和最佳治理模式的看法；如何建立有效的定价机制；新能源战略如何对接交通电气化等。总的来说，清洁能源是一个非常吸引人的课题，需要各国进一步研究和交流经验。

Clean energies are progressing well around the world, their capacity to contribute to reducing carbon emissions and pollution is well established and their cost has declined precipitously, and this trend is likely to continue. At the same time it is creating several challenges, all along from changing our perception about how power systems work and what is the best governance model, to establishing efficient pricing mechanisms not to mention how renewable energies will fi t with the electri fi cation of transport. Overall, this is a fascinating topic that requires further research and the exchange of experiences by countries.

《法人》： “一带一路”能源合作仍然面临着哪些挑战？

曼努埃尔 · 皮诺：能源投资和房地产、股票投资不同，需要有长期规划。因此，规划和推出新项目需要时间。“一带一路”倡议在促进能源领域投资方面发挥着独特的作用，这个过程是循序渐进的，我认为这是具有积极意义的，当然成功需要更多决心和耐心的付出。

Investments in the energy sector have a long- term horizon； it is not the same as investing in real estate or in the stock market. Therefore, it will take time for planning and the roll out of new projects. The B&R initiative is a multi year initiative with a unique capacity to facilitating investments in the energy sector, its roll out will be gradual, which is positive in my view, and its success depends on determination and patience.